Internet Explorer 8 - Yet more IE specific tags..

[BaRRaKID]

At least they are giving some kind of backward compatibility and not braking the net again like they did with IE6 and IE7. I think this is a good thing, but it would be better if the "super standard mode" was used as default in IE8, and the meta tag was used to give backwards compatibility to IE8. That would make more sense imo...

[xoqolatl]

Just go to w3schools.com, look at HTML and CSS references and watch how 1/2 features is not supported in IE or does not work in IE.
I have Internet Programming this year at University and we never use IE...

[Mr. Happy]

I hate to be the one to have to say it because I know a deluge of "wtf noob stfu ie gehy" comments will come but....

When 98% of internet users use IE, Microsoft creates the web standards. Whatever IE isn't supporting, isn't a web standard, it's arcane shit made by people who jerk of to compiling their linux kernel, and using those things is anti-standard.

I'm sorry, but when only 2% support something you just can't call it a standard.

[Sauce]

wtf noob stfu ie gehy

[Oakley]

wtf noob stfu ie gehy

You had it coming. Only reason IE is the most common browser is because its bundled with windows, that being the most common OS. So there is no standards about it. That is the simple reason why people use it. I can't help but agree withh Mr.Happy. He has a good point.

[dissonance]

The days of making special allowances for IE are faaaar from over...

No.
I understand the need for universal access, but fuck IE. It's dead to me. From here on out, it's only standards-complient code for me, along with a little javascript redirect
(if moz,firefox,epiphany,etc then index.html; if ie>7 then fuckoffandgetarealbrowser.html)

[Wills]

When 98% of internet users use IE, Microsoft creates the web standards.

Thank god I'm not the only one who thinks this!

I thought I was alone in the world of web design...

[Blink]

I hate to be the one to have to say it because I know a deluge of "wtf noob stfu ie gehy" comments will come but....

When 98% of internet users use IE, Microsoft creates the web standards. Whatever IE isn't supporting, isn't a web standard, it's arcane shit made by people who jerk of to compiling their linux kernel, and using those things is anti-standard.

I'm sorry, but when only 2% support something you just can't call it a standard.

It's only users of Internet Explorer that say that, and because they use it I can safely assume they know nothing about what a web standard even is.

The fact that you think Microsoft invent web standards says it all. Don't worry though, us developers will keep on hacking our stylesheets so you can view the internetz.

The days of making special allowances for IE are faaaar from over...

No.
I understand the need for universal access, but fuck IE. It's dead to me. From here on out, it's only standards-complient code for me, along with a little javascript redirect
(if moz,firefox,epiphany,etc then index.html; if ie>7 then fuckoffandgetarealbrowser.html)

As I've said before, you'd last 5 minutes in the world of professional web development with that attitude.

As shit as IE is and how rubbish it is at interpreting CSS, we still need to support purely because it comes with windows and your average internet user knows no different.

[Wills]

I totally get what you're saying Blink, I'm an advocate of web standards myself (to a sensible degree, using innerhtml is absolutely fine, append-child my ass) and I understand that web standards are rather loose when it comes to IE7...

But my feeling is that MS define web standards by the pure fact they release the most used browser. OK, they treat CSS rather loosely and a lot of other factors which can be a pain, but none-the-less, I think to an extent, we're fighting against the grain here.

MS though are in a lose-lose situation. If come IE8 they decided to comply with web-standards as strongly as Firefox does, then a massive amount of websites on the internet would become unreadable or defunct, leaving the whole thing in a mess. There would be a full on media outcry, and not from web-designers, but from the news: MS breaks the Internet!

Right now, their loose standards allow these websites to appear as the designer intended to the general masses, but they go funky on Firefox. A pain in the ass for FF users, but most people would never know.

I 98% comply with web standards when I build a site, and I view it in both FF and IE to ensure everything is going fine. Then I go through and view it in Safari and finally Opera.

IE is certainly a pain in a sense, because it often seems to compensate for my mistakes, giving me the wrong impression... but only because it has to.

[Blink]

MS though are in a lose-lose situation. If come IE8 they decided to comply with web-standards as strongly as Firefox does, then a massive amount of websites on the internet would become unreadable or defunct, leaving the whole thing in a mess. There would be a full on media outcry, and not from web-designers, but from the news: MS breaks the Internet![/i].

Unfortunately, this isn't true. First of all they would break a few websites, not the internet and secondly, if they just made IE8 purely compliant then we would see no more problems then those seen using Firefox, Opera, Safari etc.

Basically, I've never seen a website that is broken beyond usability in any standards strict browser, do you ever see any websites that are unreadable or defunct in those browsers?

This article is a good one on the subject - http://alistapart.com/articles/theyshootbrowsers

[dissonance]

The days of making special allowances for IE are faaaar from over...

No.
I understand the need for universal access, but fuck IE. It's dead to me. From here on out, it's only standards-complient code for me, along with a little javascript redirect
(if moz,firefox,epiphany,etc then index.html; if ie>7 then fuckoffandgetarealbrowser.html)

As I've said before, you'd last 5 minutes in the world of professional web development with that attitude.

As shit as IE is and how rubbish it is at interpreting CSS, we still need to support purely because it comes with windows and your average internet user knows no different.

I see where you're coming from, and I know that's why I don't have a job in that industry, but we seriously need to stop placating IE/MS. The longer we, as both developers and users, put up with this shit, the longer it will go on, and the worse it will get. We need to draw a line and stick to it.

[Mr. Happy]

No, see, I know there are these high and mighty self appointed people who make up rules about how the internet should be constructed, and these are called "web standards" but in the real-world you can't call something a standard if it isn't being used standardly.

So maybe Firefox and Mozilla etc. should just interpret html and css and whatever the same way IE does, since it's predominate, and then you wouldn't have to write your page more than once. Even if it's different than what some bunch of whoevers says, it would still work fine accross all browsers

right?

[Blink]

No, see, I know there are these high and mighty self appointed people who make up rules about how the internet should be constructed, and these are called "web standards" but in the real-world you can't call something a standard if it isn't being used standardly.

So maybe Firefox and Mozilla etc. should just interpret html and css and whatever the same way IE does, since it's predominate, and then you wouldn't have to write your page more than once. Even if it's different than what some bunch of whoevers says, it would still work fine accross all browsers

right?

They aren't high and mighty at all, even MS are working towards full standards (IE8 passes the ACID 2 test, which proves their browser is fully CSS compliant). The problem is IE8 won't render to full standards by default, web designers have to add code to tell it too, otherwise it defaults to shitty IE7 rendering which makes the whole ordeal almost pointless.

A standard is something everyone should follow, and by Microsoft adding this function to IE8, we're back to almost all browsers rendering pages the same, instead of what could be a glorious world of every browser displaying a page as it should.

Using your example, should we change a driving test just because no one follows the rules after they pass? The practical test is a driving standard, but I guess we should change it to teach bad and unsafe habits just because everyone does that anyway?

Unfortunately that kind of approach is flawed, the same applies to the web standards situation.

[BaRRaKID]

No, see, I know there are these high and mighty self appointed people who make up rules about how the internet should be constructed, and these are called "web standards" but in the real-world you can't call something a standard if it isn't being used standardly.

So maybe Firefox and Mozilla etc. should just interpret html and css and whatever the same way IE does, since it's predominate, and then you wouldn't have to write your page more than once. Even if it's different than what some bunch of whoevers says, it would still work fine accross all browsers

right?

Please read http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/wrongWithIE/, since you're really missing the point!

[Deus_Mortem]

I say fuck all this. Let's go back to text-only web pages, the way it's meant to be.

Couldn't be put any better.

http://www.something.com will take over these here intarwebz soon!