de_serenity

[Syphon]

I really, really dig the rocks how they are right now! However the building does look a bit plastic to me...

[nub]

Thats some high bloody praise nub, but I agree it is a really nice looking map. Wish I had the skill to make custom assets like that.

It's mainly because it reminds me so much of the map I really wanted to make, as far as the visuals go. It definitely has issues with lighting and whatnot in various spots, but I still love the way it looks. It's just a cool map.

[Xyos212]

Guys thank you for the honest feedback and kind words. If I get time I will go back and update the map fixing most of the issues mentioned here. Its nice to be able to do that with the Workshop.

It really means a lot to get this kind of response to the map. I poured my heart and soul into it, its the culmination of a lot of what I've learned about mapping and modeling over the years. A lot of what I learned started at this site 5 or 6 years ago with the original HL2!

I know the map is not perfect, so like I said when I get the time I will definitely try to address all that has been said here, except a few things which I want to keep intact to keep the look I was going for.

[Xyos212]

This map has been updated a few times by myself since it was posted, based on feedback from comments, and players while playing on my server.

UPDATES:

-Added deathmatch support
-Moved bombsite A to nature area
-Added cover to nature area
-added more cover to Bombsite B area
-Counter-Terrorists now can access balcony at bombsite B area
-Moved bombsite B back slightly towards CT side
-Moved spawns so Terrorists dont lead Counter-Terrorists to encounter
points
-Fixed some collision issues
-Changed radar to reflect map changes
-Further optimizations to improve performance

-Added extra routes in the center to create better map flow.
-Added more cover inside.
-Overhauled Radar to be more readable and easier to use for navigation.

[Smurftyours]

This map has some serious issues in how its constructed. You should try spending a lot of time learning the basics of bsp rather than creating a whole map mainly composed out of models in an engine that really fails to deliver models. You also have a bunch of pieces misaligned through our the map and it just looks bad that you didn't spend the time to fix such minor issues.

[Xyos212]

This map has some serious issues in how its constructed. You should try spending a lot of time learning the basics of bsp rather than creating a whole map mainly composed out of models in an engine that really fails to deliver models. You also have a bunch of pieces misaligned through our the map and it just looks bad that you didn't spend the time to fix such minor issues.

BSP is very limited in the detail you can achieve. I believe I achieved the look I wanted properly with models. Source has some issue with some models lighting, but overall I got the look I wanted and am happy with it.

I have addressed most alignment issues in various updates. Like you said they are minor issues, so I dont see why its such a concern for you. The map is on its 4th update on the workshop. If you feel you could achieve this with brushwork only and could do a better job please do so

[Smurftyours]

Edit: I'm actually going to retract my statement of your use of models. It just turns our all the problems of your map stem from the fact that it doesn't seem like you have a fucking clue what your doing with bsps. There is some seriously wonky shit, as well as odd things going on all over the map. As for the misalignment you said you fixed, I found over 10 instances of misaligned models, zplane fighting, and stuff just weirdly colliding into other objects before I stopped counting due to the fact that there was so many visual oddities that it was getting to a point of silliness to count them all.

Probably the most ridiculous thing I found was a series of copy and pasted walls, which was pretty much most of the exterior anyways, but this piece just left me in awe for a moment.

Models are good and all, but they will never cover up the pile of fuck that you constructed with bsps above. The above screenshot pretty much demonstrates how much you don't know about mapping and should really come as a warning that you need to spend more time working with the basics.

Without fundamentals your map lacks the ability to support your assets, and trust me, no matter how much gold you slather on a turd, it'll still be shit inside until you take the time to clean it out.

[Armageddon]

Ross I think that's a little harsh okay, this map is very popular and has had large success. I've never seen you release a map this good so don't comment okay you don't know anything. This guy is a real pro he's been doing it for 5+ years so obviously he's doing it right.

[nub]

Inb4 Arma posts pointless sarcasm.

Oh wait...I'm too late...


Anyway, in case someone decides to debase my praise, I'll reiterate. I find this map cool. That's all I'm saying. It definitely has plenty of issues and oddities in its design, but it has a personal visual appeal to me, so that's why I gave it such high praise. It's not perfect, in fact the design is wonky, but I like it regardless.

However I definitely agree with Smurfty about Xyos working on his BSP skills some more. You'd be surprised at what you can achieve with Source. Especially now that CSGO has CSM lighting. Models in Source have never looked sexier, quite frankly. For instance:



That scene was made by Jimonions. You should take a look at his portfolio on Interlopers. He has some kind of freakishly good ability to make small scale environments in Source that are drop dead gorgeous. And I'm positive all of the techniques he uses can be applied in a much larger scale map if you put the time in to it.

[Armageddon]

I just want to clear up I was not making fun of Xyos I was mocking Ross in how upset he was getting. Xyos it's a fine map even though it's messy in places and if it runs I guess that's what matters. It's much better than I could ever do probably.

I look forward to seeing more stuff from you.

[Xyos212]

SMurf that area behind the wall is not visible to the player. Those top trusses are not bsp, that is a single model not visible from that angle.

Even if it was BSP, the player does not see it from that angle, and it would be func_detailed for being rotated like that.

I appreciate your time and effort to look at the map, but you just seem to be overly bashing it for little things. I'm all up for constructive critique but just because I dont map like you do does not mean it is wrong. There is no need to get nasty and insulting by saying techniques are "hacky" or "pile of fuck". I dont want to argue in this thread so lets just please move on.

I do respect critique Smurf, as I've updated almost everything brought up in comments. However I will not take someone hating on my work as constructive. You could of brought your issues to light without the pointless cursing and insults.

Thanks guys for the honest feedback. Hopefully I can call the map DONE and move on, think I've addressed all I could

@nub: That really is amazing. Have you ever seen Dear Esther? They do some great stuff with foliage with the source engine its inspiring!

[source-maps]

have you ever seen Dear Esther he said

[Smurftyours]

Hopefully I can call the map DONE and move on

I'd love to see this "finished" version of the map.

As for my comments preceding this notice, they are completely dependent on the finished map which I haven't seen yet, but based on what I have seen, I have the following to say.

I can admit that I wasn't being very constructive, but I am just amazed by the lack of refinement. Like aforementioned, there is a lot of weird visual glitches popping out all over the map and it would be a shame not to take the time to fix these problems. Yes they are minor issues, but when you have so many minor issues that you can lose track counting them, it's no longer a minor problem, but rather a major one.

I've addressed all I could

This is pretty disappointing as well. I guess you lack the conviction to see it through and iron out the wrinkles in your map. I don't know what you roots in level design, or which editor you use most, but many of the things I have seen in your map look like techniques that would be used in UE or UDK. Like stated previously, you should spend some time learning more about how the fundamentals of source work rather than substituting that knowledge with techniques that work great in other editors, but fail to deliver in source.

[Hollow]

That BSP sloppiness will shit all over your optimisation. The map may look fine from the players point of view, but the screenshot Smurft highlighted looks horrendous. Don't be falling into bad habits like that.

[DonPunch]

don't be grid snobs...

Game play, performance, and the players perspective is all that matters, period.

If you don't want to know how sausage is made, stay out of the kitchen.