wip CS_MAVO

Reveal what you have made so far and get feedback on development.

wip CS_MAVO

Postby daap on Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:01 pm

hi.
first off i want to show some screens off my css map.
(click for original size)
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i have a kind of background story going on..
the Terrorist have blown there selfes a way in to the school and taken the teachers "profesors" as hostages. As counter-terrorist you find your self spawning next to a APC or SWAT-van just arriving at the scene.
The terrosist spawn in the main builing with the hostages (left side last ingame-screenshot). The resutls of the Terrorists rushing in at the beginning off the hostages situation can be seen by; lockers all over the floor, chairs on the ground, flickering lights, holes in walls, debris, etc wich allready be there when you spawn..
or at least that's the idea :o

its my old school. there still allot of work left especialy on the inside..I'm also going to create a parkinglot and a busstop next to the school where the Ct's will spawn(right side first screen)

i'm wondering if anyone has a nice idea of what to do with the borders off the map.. It's real location is in a small village. surrounded by houses and a road..but i'm not quiet sure if thats gonna work in a 3d skybox.

Q' Will the map become "laggy" (fps drops) if i only use breakable glass?

any other suggestions are appreciated.:o
(i know the lighting still sucks)
thnx
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Postby Mango on Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:14 pm

Hey nice work.
Pic 1: The building looks very square and the roof looks like a flat cap, put some sort of trip running round the edges of roof to give it more detail. You have to be creative and add more details, to look good it must have things that aren't there in real-life.

Pic 2: The grass needs some height and the shallow looks really steep, add some more levels (they don't have to be excessively dramatic). Use displacements. The grass texture should also be rotated to 45 degrees to help it to look less tiled. Use detail sprites!

Pic 3: Again, building very square, maybe give it a porch or something. I don't like the window cloths eithers, seem out of character.

Pic 4: Looks cool, add displacements to below the trees. Change the trim texture between the paths (rotate 90). Maybe create banked displacements on either side of the path, the create a path that stands 'proud/raised' of the floor. Change the tree types/skins, they look a bit similar - just a litle bit of variety.

Pic 5: The middle area place texture looks too repetative, create some variations of you own in photo shop. The lighting is also too bright for a night map I know you haven't finished yet, but lighting is one of the things that will make or break your map. Use dramatic shadowing intelligently. The platform (wooden roof) looks boring, just because it's wood paneling doesn't mean it has to be flat.

Pic 6: I think the window models are too close to one another, there should be a trim above, below and to the sides of those windows. I would create groups of 3 and intersperse them with sections of walls. I also doubt the brick texture would be on the inside window ledge. Think creatively about differentiating the texture using minimal detail. Take care with your windows, if they don't look right the building won't look right. The building should compliment the window design.

Pic 7: This looks good but I would change the texture of the floor it's the same as the hallway. Add a trim (again) to the bathroom. Think about drainage and pipes (don't go overboard, be subtle). I have no idea what that blue thing is! :-) The place /should/ be clean, use specular maps or boost them by editing the .vmf files.
Ok, the wall is broken, why ; how? If it was an explosion there should be blast marks or even an understated blackening and discolouration/carbonisation of the local area can add to the effect. How about a broken light that got caught in the explosion, a leaking pipe? The wall would also loose tiles and bricks, create a few tiles and scatter them around on the floor, maybe create your own model for a few tiles? (It's not that hard really, DL XSI :-))

Pic 8: very square! The wall above the windows looks tiny, raising the roof is probably the easiest way. I know rebuilding brushwork is a pain, but it has to be done. Trim, detail - what is the room for? Break up the windows with a section of wall, the shadows will be more dramatic because of it. Basically more detail, HL2 props aren't going to cut it: beg, borrow or steal some more models. Failing that, build what you can with world geomentry and func_detail it.

Pic 9: Add a trim, sunken of gravel between floor and outside of building. There's a lightsource further down the building, where it it coming from? (use light_environment to get a good ambient level then detail with other lights.

Pic 10: Lightsource, trim, detail.

Pic 11: ?Kitchen? is way too small, way too grubby. Think about the processes of cooking that have to be done to create food for all those kids that attend that school. There's no workspace at all, things like extractor fans and a fridge section can add detail to your map both inside and outside (fans must go somewhere). Use trims etc..

Pic 12: More detail on buildings, better/more light sources that contrast colours an throw shadows. make an inside rail for the woodem roof- make it more interesting architecturally. Displacements.

Pic 13: Again more details, posters, white boards - interesting things that while might not be in your lab, are interesting. Rack mounts, things from a computer science lab, NOT Dr. K's - haha.

Pic 15: Loose the texure in the middle, it looks odd. I don't like the blue. texture above the doors is of a greater scale and doesn't match the wall. Don't use the same texture throughout! fix the bathroom like I said above. (Or don't, whatever you choose. :-])

The Rest: You will come to a point where you have to consider the visibility load, if the player's leaf can see all the others in the world - this will be bad. The map is small so it might be ok, but you may well have to compromise on detail because of it; which is where you creative texturing and economical use of detail and lighting is going to pay off. Read up on hints.

The window situation may become laggy depending on the players view, you could make it as detailed as you like, but if the player has to see 15 copies of them at the same time it will be bad. Use areaportals to get round this. Be clever, be creative, don't be afraid to remodel.

For the outside/borders use a combination of houses, woods and other natural and man made stuff to basically block the "walls" off, then use a cool 3d sky box and place the map inside what is like a dinner place, suggestions of valleys etc.. flat is boring! Moving clouds etc can help add depth.

I hope this helps, best of luck.
Mango
 

Postby daap on Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:24 pm

Mango wrote:
Pic 11: ?Kitchen? is way too small, way too grubby. Think about the processes of cooking that have to be done to create food for all those kids that attend that school. There's no workspace at all, things like extractor fans and a fridge section can add detail to your map both inside and outside (fans must go somewhere). Use trims etc..

.


:).
its not really a ktichen.. there wasn't even a kitchen.. (small school 100 students)it was more a kind of inschool "store" where you could buy candy and that sort off stuff..
for the rest off the feedback.. thanks, it was more than i could hope.. gues i'l be busy the next week. ass for the lighting and that stuff.. well.. just as i said, it is not finished.. if put them there basicly to see something.. walking around in your map with constantly usage of your flashlight isn't that great...
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Postby Mango on Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:01 pm

Fair doos. I would still make it cleaner, I wouildn't eat candy bought in a place like that. Actually I'd eat candy from the sidewalk, but ya get the point.

That's cool, lighting is usually the last thing I do too. It was just that you can see a lot of lighting through the window apatures. I like to use two panes of glass for windows, so that they're more transparent and less reflective outside looking in, and less transparent and more reflective from the inside looking out.

I hope the rest helped, please post some updated shots in about a week's time or something. :)
Mango
 

Postby Darchibold on Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:24 pm

Overall I would say it is good, but i agree with mango's critcisms/improvements

You should spruce up the roof a bit(you know all the generic things that stick out of roofs in action movies an stuff) Plus maybe consider putting like a vent system for players to crawl through.

spruce up the grass areas with rocks and picnic tables and stuff.

I like the style of the kitchen but it is a bit small.
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Postby ceasar on Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:51 pm

Oke i must agree with most off the points that was given by mango for making it more interesting to look and play at, but i also understand why you made it this way. the building looks like alot off (shool)buildings made during a past time period here in holland. idd there square,flat roofs with flat trims,lots off windows like that,strange low ceilings wich located right above the windows, and our grass fields are very flat and certainly NO ROCKS.

So for me its what i see everyday, BUT idd for more interesting looks and gameplay you must pimp it up. the dutch building style off several time periods (cheap) is not interesting for in game.

Overal i think you are doing a nice job here, for a w.i.p its looks good so keep it on.

uhhhh here in holland we know what your map name is, but off the rest off the world it knows??? ;-) hihi
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Postby daap on Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:50 am

ceasar wrote:Oke i must agree with most off the points that was given by mango for making it more interesting to look and play at, but i also understand why you made it this way. the building looks like alot off (shool)buildings made during a past time period here in holland. idd there square,flat roofs with flat trims,lots off windows like that,strange low ceilings wich located right above the windows, and our grass fields are very flat and certainly NO ROCKS.


your right..its a school from that period (late 60's)..i'm trying to make a real life copy of it.. offcoure i adjust things to make the gameplay better, but the architecture of the buildings is an excact copy of the real world .

ceasar wrote:uhhhh here in holland we know what your map name is, but off the rest off the world it knows??? ;-) hihi


for those who aren't dutch... mavo is short word for
Middelbaar Algemeen Voorbereidend Onderwijs.. wich is a long word for Highschool..
i thought of cs_school before but it did not take long for me to find out that there allready about 3 maps called like that :P.. so cs_mavo sounds fine to me...

anyway.. thanx for feeback..
ill post some update screens soon ! stay tuned :P
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Re: wip CS_MAVO

Postby daap on Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:26 pm

so.. its has been 4 years and i'm bringing this topic back to life..
I just started working again on it since yesterday so not much has been changed..
Still i would appreciate any kind off feedback..
I know the lighting is still pretty grim (amateur like) but I will fix that in the final version of the map..

well.. here it goes

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a bus stop and a bus station will be build next to the parking lot
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bicycles are going to be put in in a later version

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I also changed the spawn point.. The CT's will spawn in and around the white truck on the first screen and the T's (and hostages) will spawn in the gym (big building furthest away in screen1)
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