Nearing Completion *de_deadlock_css* UPDATED April, 12th

Reveal what you have made so far and get feedback on development.

Nearing Completion *de_deadlock_css* UPDATED April, 12th

Postby MayheM on Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:43 pm

*Updated April, 12th*

A bit smaller but I think far better...
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A closer look at the area between
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Still reworking the store fronts
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Redid the church inside a bit
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Messing with the lighting in the arcade, still needs a little work
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*UPDATE April, 10th*
I have changed a few things like lighting and made some minor layout adjustments. Mainly I have done through the map and reworked some buildings. Making them a bit more detailed and less repetitive. I still have some work to do but It is coming along...

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New Ambulance skin...
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New Apartment instead of just a square room...
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Some new shop fronts...
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New approach from T spawn
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Original Post Below...
About a year ago I contacted 3D-Mike, the original mapper for de_deadlock, and asked if he would mind if I made a version of said map for counter strike source. He gave me the nod so I began to work on it. I was almost finished when L4D came out and because I enjoyed that game so much, I stopped working on the map for a long time. Recently my friends and I have been playing CS:S again and it sparked me to finish the map. We are set to test the first release candidate this weekend and in all likelihood it will be released shortly thereafter. In the meantime, here are some screens...

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I still need to do a little work on replacing textures and I just finished the radar, but for the most part I am very pleased with the way it turned out.
Last edited by MayheM on Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Nearing Completion *de_deadlock_css*

Postby mbombz on Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:49 pm

Having played this map more times that I can count during development I feel compelled to add my pennies of feedback. I think MayheM has done a stellar job here. The map is very true to the original with tasteful additions to keep the experience fresh. I look forward to hammering it this weekend :D
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Re: Nearing Completion *de_deadlock_css*

Postby mookie on Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:06 pm

Nice screens. But I wonder, if all you're going to do it a private playtest, why even bother posting before final release?
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Re: Nearing Completion *de_deadlock_css*

Postby MayheM on Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:13 pm

For the most part nothing will change from these screens. The changes I will make will be minor visual ones. But this weekend we are not really testing purse, scine we have tested it a lot already. It is like a pre-release party... I will be posting a download after the weekend to get more feedback...
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Re: Nearing Completion *de_deadlock_css*

Postby mbombz on Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:10 am

No one has said the playtest is private. You assume .... tsk tsk.

I run a dedicated server on the West Coast of the 'states'. Gametime is 6PM PST (GMT -8). Depending on whereabouts you are located on the globe.
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Re: Nearing Completion *de_deadlock_css*

Postby joe_dirt976 on Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:23 am

nice, love the lighting.
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Re: Nearing Completion *de_deadlock_css*

Postby SotaPoika on Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:45 am

Ambulance needs it's text "ambulance" mirrored. I mean, that's how it is mostly. Also, some of the apartments look very small, like it's for one person only. Otherwise this looks like a good map, I like the lighting too.
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Re: Nearing Completion *de_deadlock_css*

Postby mookie on Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:19 pm

mbombz wrote:No one has said the playtest is private. You assume .... tsk tsk.

I run a dedicated server on the West Coast of the 'states'. Gametime is 6PM PST (GMT -8). Depending on whereabouts you are located on the globe.

As someone who's responsible for a pub of our own in Chicago, I guess I have a different idea of what's public and private; as far as I'm concerned if I can't download the map and load it onto a server it's private. I guess I could cyberstalk you to try and find your server, connect, read sv_downloadurl, and browse your FTP to see if the map is on there, but that would feel dirty.

Mostly though I just get annoyed when I download a final release of something which is also the first public release, and there are problems with it that should've easily been picked up.

Looking forward to seeing how it plays.

Visually there's not a lot to say. To my eye though it gets worse the further up off the ground your eye goes. The ground looks great: nice brushwork and nice textures, although it looks to me like the red carpet could benefit from stronger or more homogenous lighting. Outside, the first story looks fine, and so does the second, but most of the buildings individually seem discordant. Really, it's like the second story is a different map, and to my eye the net effect of that is that the outdoors looks chaotic and blah. I think the textures that are really killing you here are the red with white edging (upper story of near building in the first screenshot, and others), the white with white edging (upper part of building in second and third screenshots), and the white with no edging (upper part of building toward the left of the third screenshot). The first one would probably work if the edging matches the edging of the building below, and the brick matches or complements the brick of the building below. The other two IMO just don't work with the rest of the map as you have it here.

Ideally, I'd say retexture all your building walls with three or four different but complementary custom texture sets. Maybe get away from using brick on every building, as even though the ground level looks OK, so many different shades of red brick is not looking that great. Smooth concrete in the right shade usually complements red brick well, and larger non-red bricks or stonework would probably add some variety without breaking thematically with the ground.

It looks like most of the shop windows are just a picture. It would probably be better to have them covered up with some kind of shades or blinds than to leave them like that. Much better would be to partially detail the inside and put some advertisements in the windows to cover up the lack of detail.

The one inside area seen here looks OK, but not great. I think the ceiling might be throwing it off because the color is so far off compared to the walls; I'd expect something in a very pale blue rather than cream. Those lights you have look tough to work with. It seems though like you've just got a light entity a little ways off the wall and below the lights. Maybe a light_spot, directed down and away from the wall, with very wide angles would work better. Whatever you do here, it'd be much better if there weren't these big patches of light hitting the ceiling.
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Re: Nearing Completion *de_deadlock_css*

Postby MayheM on Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:21 pm

SotaPoika wrote:Ambulance needs it's text "ambulance" mirrored. I mean, that's how it is mostly. Also, some of the apartments look very small, like it's for one person only. Otherwise this looks like a good map, I like the lighting too.


You are absolutely correct and it had not gone unnoticed. I am going to re-texture that before final release... This is actually the first version in which that specific model was used so at the moment it is the original texture.
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Re: Nearing Completion *de_deadlock_css*

Postby RA7 on Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:09 pm

Like it, good work :-)
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Re: Nearing Completion *de_deadlock_css*

Postby mookie on Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:24 am

Wasn't able to get on and play due to an unrelenting lagstorm, but I did get the map from GlobalAssault.

The file size seems to be out of control. To me (as a server admin) 30MB for the BZ2 is getting to be quite large. So if there's anything there that's taking up a lot of space (and doesn't compress well) I'd want to consider how much it's really adding to the map.

A few things stick out to me walking around the map. (1) There are annoying sounds going off all the time. The sound of birds I don't really get, since this is a fairly urban map. I recall this sound (or something very similar) being the biggest complaint I've heard about several other maps in the past. The other sounds (horns/sirens, bells, video games) are quite jarring since they're loud and come up sporadically. Maybe a more continuous sound would be more agreeable, like how the slot machines are in de_vegas_css. (2) The strippers and the room full of cannabis feel very gimmicky. If they fit into the environment that'd be one thing, but as they are it's more like, "look! titties and pot!" (3) The doors are very slow. (4) The level is definitely under-lit. The skybox doesn't seem to match the direction of the direct light. If the direct light is going to stay in the direction it's in now, it should be turned up. The ambient should definitely be turned up either way. There are some areas where the walls are nearly pitch-dark, even though there is open sky above.

A few other miscellaneous thoughts:

The more distinctive a shop window is, the more obvious it is if it's used twice. The one that really sticks out to me is the one that has some bullseye-type decals and a bunch of sheets of paper (some kind of printing shop?).

The windows everywhere are way too shiny; they look like mirrors.

There are a few doors that can be shot out. They aren't getting enough light. If an area is dark, people normally aren't going to identify it as a way they can go. Also, it seems unnecessary to force the player to shoot these out to begin with.

Similarly, when you go from T spawn to the right, then back inside quickly to the left, the left side there is better lit and white. My natural reaction here is to think that I can make a left turn. Also, the dumpsters right here are weird, as they're just sitting in the open and not pushed into a corner or even against a wall.

Walking around the building with the clocktower is a bit awkward. The alley is very dark, and the columns that come off the walls take up a lot of walkable space.

It seems like there are too many ladder-type things around the map which aren't ladders. I walked around probably fifteen minutes before I realized you can climb up and down the fences. It's not that this is wrong, it's just inconsistent with pretty much all the CSS maps out there. The ivy is not so bad, but it does seem overused.

There are also a lot of ledges/canopies/objects that you can stand on. One thing that tends to annoy people a lot is getting killed by someone who was sitting on a lamp or the top of a door.

The handles don't move with the door next to the entrance to the arcade.

The upper hallway to the left from T spawn (sniper tower?) is really lacking visually. It seems like it should be cleaner, brighter, more detailed.

Before a final release, you should go around and clip off the areas where you can get hung up (a lot of shop façades are recessed a few units and you get snagged as you're running along them - it seems like you did some but not all) and disable collisions on any props that don't need them (small lamps etc).

A lot of your props are fading out while they're still in sight: the van at B, some arcade games, some pieces of ivy, and probably some others I'm not noticing.

Between the arcade and B, if you look at the water to the right, there's a reflection of something that fades away as you approach it, by the grate.

The white van is overused.

The lightglows on a lot of the lamps are too much; they need to fade out again as you get further away. Really, you could probably just lose them entirely as it doesn't seem like they're adding much.

The bunch of posters outside the arcade are a little too HL2.

It's pretty easy to put the bomb out of play under the vans that are on the streets, especially the one by the sniper tower. The bomb can be thrown on top of the big dumpsters by T spawn, or behind the smaller dumpsters there. I can also throw the bomb up and onto/past some ledges that you can't get to. These should be clipped off.
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Re: Nearing Completion *de_deadlock_css*

Postby MayheM on Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:48 pm

A lot of the things, I can agree with you on and the map does need some tweaking... Though You have to know this is a remake of a map by 3D-Mike... The original is called de_dealock. Every sound in his map is in this map. The strippers and the pot room where in there too. That is why they are in there.

The long and the short of it, I will in all likelihood go through and change some store fronts and signs. This will make them less repetitive as well as cut down on the file size. I will also touch up some of the lighting and fix some detail work.

Thanks for the feedback...
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Re: Nearing Completion *de_deadlock_css*

Postby Armageddon on Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:33 pm

Time o' day hurt mah eyes!
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Re: Nearing Completion *de_deadlock_css*

Postby mookie on Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:23 am

To be blunt, I think considering fidelity to a 1.6 map as a priority is a mistake. Remaking a map is a chance to fix any problems with it (timing, camping spots, complexity) and completely revise its look. Holding on to any details beyond the layout and setting is handicapping yourself.

The room full of smoke and pot is the perfect place to do anything: it's cut off from the rest of the map, so graphically it doesn't need to blend in so much, and some expensive stuff could go in here without effecting people's framerate as they walk around. This could be a nice apartment, a tiny café, a small hydroponics lab, or anything that fits inside this building, but instead it's a square, crappy-looking room full of smoke. Maybe if it connected down to the tiny dead-end room next door you'd really be getting somewhere.

Why have strippers standing in the street? They're just getting in the way. There's a sign for a peep show, why not push the brushes around a bit and find room to add the peep show? If you put the door on the right instead of the left, you could probably tuck it behind that garage. Plus the brunette is creepy-looking.

If you MP3 the 20-bit sounds you can probably save 6MB.

I stand corrected on the large dumpsters, since you can climb up the ladder and get on top.

I checked on your server on HLSW last Saturday here and there, and only saw two of you in there. I thought I'd load the map up on ours and pop in to see if that was cool with you and if you wanted to drop in for a play-through. But then I thought about it for a few more seconds, and how much crap I'd take about the strippers and the pot. As Toot Cahoon's pre-recorded message says, in a vain attempt to stop the crowd shouting "fuck 'em up, fuck 'em up, go UMass," there are children, and ladies, present. This stuff really is an impediment to getting play, and more so the more conspicuous/gratuitous it is.
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Re: Nearing Completion *de_deadlock_css*

Postby mookie on Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:36 am

Also, re-ran VRAD with different light_environment settings I had from a map I've been working on (w/ sky_day03_04). yaw 45, pitch -32, bright 237 218 143 1200, ambient 190 201 220 400. I'm not saying you should use these values especially since this sky is completely different, but the difference from the stronger indirect light is huge. Probably not exactly the feel you're looking for, but if you go bluer instead of darker with the ambient light, you might get decent light around the map without losing the dusk feeling.

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