Huge outdoors displacement based map

[snah]

Generated 2048x2048 height map, normal map, attributes map and AO map in L3DT.

Made my own 2048 texture map for the ground textured in photoshop:


ran the heightmap thru dispgen with a scale of 26624 units (pretty much as big as you can make a map in source). Loaded up hammer and added my terrain texture to the entire thing and fitted it all up. added a detail texture to the terrain so its looks good upclose.

made a tree that has lods going from 500poly to 8polys and now my friend is working on a program that takes the size of the map, the heightmap used to build it and the heigh of the map and places any number of prop_static (or any entity) you specify randomly all over the terrain with the option of random YAW values (and there is a black and white image loaded that acts as a "rule" map, so no trees are placed on the white bits in the rule map)...


(these are old images, for some reason i can get my CSS to load normal maps when i run it from the launcher. When i run straight from hammer with "run after compile" ticked i get beautiful normal maps, but when i run from steam library i get none, any ideas why?)
So my question is, considering that this map currently has 676 1024x1024 displacement maps at the power of 3, 8 walls for a skybox, 3 entities - light_env, env_cubemap and env_sun and 16 or so player spawns... And 70 or so trees right now. How many more trees do you think i can get in it before source tells me there is a hunk overflow?

some images from my CSS when run from steam library:

Any idea why it looks so shitty and my normal maps dont load? btw, i have no configs in my CFG folder and no launch options running. Thanks

[MáØ]

No idea about normal maps but,

So my question is, considering that this map currently has 676 1024x1024 displacement maps at the power of 3, 8 walls for a skybox, 3 entities - light_env, env_cubemap and env_sun and 16 or so player spawns... And 70 or so trees right now. How many more trees do you think i can get in it before source tells me there is a hunk overflow?

I've had up to 450 ep2 trees (tree_dead04 I think) in a map, all visible at once with no issues (190-90fps). This map also had a lot of other stuff in it, so you should be able to spam trees all you like.

[snah]

thats good to know... im just worried that all the displacements will take up a lot of the entity count.

[CorporalAris]

This is relevant to my interests. Bookmarking thread.

[bouncy_ninja]

This is relevant to my interests. Bookmarking thread.

indeed.
I have a similer map in the works and i use power of 2.

[Plague]

Would you be willing to put like a 100unit block at one corner and another at the opposite corner?
I just wanted to see the size difference over such distances.
(Player height would be better, 72hu right?)

[Groxkiller585]

Maybe your normals are, for whatever reason, disabled?

Go to options, turn texture quality to high. maybe it reset, IDK.

[Kosire]

I bet the reason why you can't load normal maps from Steam is because of your config.cfg.
When you load css from hammer, it doenst use your config.cfg but the totally default one (atleast it does here and sets my res to 800x600 etc.)

Command for normals should be mat_bumpmap 1 (If interrested specular should be mat_specular 1)

[Armageddon]

This is how outdoor maps should be made, less repetitive textures, more awesome sauce. Those trees stick out like a sore thumb though, you might also want to make the lake part of the texture more rocky/muddy.

[Mr. Happy]

Very very awesome! If I were you I would go ahead and use an even higher resolution texture, 4096. Also I would probably make it in four sections with 1 4096 texture per. Also, dunno if CSS supports this, but you could add a detail texture (not detail sprites, but a detail texture) which is a black and white texture that modulates the diffuse and only shows up when you are close. That way you can add more detail without having small scale repeating textures.

[snah]

This is how outdoor maps should be made, less repetitive textures, more awesome sauce. Those trees stick out like a sore thumb though, you might also want to make the lake part of the texture more rocky/muddy.

Yeah i agree, looks way better. Youre so right about the trees, they look like balls. They are sort of just a test, i might use the EP2 trees but i wanted to make my own. I wanted to make Redwood tree like redwood forest and have them REALLLL tall, then i thought i could program in a helicopter. The CT would start on the top of that big hill and the terrorists would start in 3 different cambs on the ground. Could be fun. But yeah. The texture needs some work around the lake, the lake was also a test, its jsut to see how water looks. This is all WIP until my m8 finishes the prop placement script for me. Ill get him to release it publicly when it done, it might be useful.

Very very awesome! If I were you I would go ahead and use an even higher resolution texture, 4096. Also I would probably make it in four sections with 1 4096 texture per. Also, dunno if CSS supports this, but you could add a detail texture (not detail sprites, but a detail texture) which is a black and white texture that modulates the diffuse and only shows up when you are close. That way you can add more detail without having small scale repeating textures.

Yeah i would use a higher res texture but the problem is L3DT (the program i used to make the heigh map and normals) only makes a 2048 texture for NON-PAYING customers -_-... I cant afford to get the Pro version for the full BIG res textures. But i will maybe work on a higher res ground diffuse map in Photoshop if i cba. As for the Detail texture read my 1st post man i already did that. Look closely at the ground in the 1st two screenshots. Its a black and white map of a EP2 forest ground texture. Im going to add detail sprites too for more awesome. DW, i got this shit on lock.

Watch this space for updates soon.

[Armageddon]

About your normal map, I'm not sure if this is true but when you scale a texture up to high, the normal map isn't shown anymore. But I can't be sure of that, anyways I'd do what Mr. Happy said, except just make 16, 2048x2048 textures, that would be the most insanely awesome map ever, maybe even, after you make the terrain, export it to a modeling program, and place the tree models, and bake the shadows of the trees with the lighting onto the texture.

[snah]

About your normal map, I'm not sure if this is true but when you scale a texture up to high, the normal map isn't shown anymore. But I can't be sure of that, anyways I'd do what Mr. Happy said, except just make 16, 2048x2048 textures, that would be the most insanely awesome map ever, maybe even, after you make the terrain, export it to a modeling program, and place the tree models, and bake the shadows of the trees with the lighting onto the texture.

Nah i thought that might be the case too, (when you scale something up beyond a certain point you lose the normal map) but i tested it in a testmap with 2 huge textures side by side one without and one with a normal map and the normal map worked fine... BUT NOT WHEN I RUN FROM MY GAMES LIBRARY. Only when i run from hammer, which is really fucking strange. Ive tried deleting my config folder and stuff. One thing that i do get when i run a map is my console says this:

Code: Select all

Steam config directory: c:\program files (x86)\steam\steamapps\snah\counter-strike source\platform\config
Unknown command "cl_thirdperson"
Can't use cheat cvar cam_snapto in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar cam_ideallag in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar cam_idealdelta in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar cam_idealyaw in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar cam_idealpitch in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar cam_idealdist in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar cam_idealdistright in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar cam_idealdistup in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar cam_collision in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar c_maxpitch in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar c_minpitch in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar c_maxyaw in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar c_minyaw in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar c_maxdistance in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar c_mindistance in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar c_orthowidth in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar c_orthoheight in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar cl_upspeed in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar cl_forwardspeed in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar cl_backspeed in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Not playing a local game.
Can't use cheat cvar fog_start in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar fog_end in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar fog_color in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar fog_colorskybox in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar fog_color in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar fog_colorskybox in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar fog_color in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar fog_colorskybox in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar fog_startskybox in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar fog_endskybox in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar fog_color in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar fog_colorskybox in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar fog_color in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar fog_colorskybox in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar fog_color in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar fog_colorskybox in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar r_farz in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
Can't use cheat cvar r_farz in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.

which to me looks like its trying to load a config from c:\program files (x86)\steam\steamapps\snah\counter-strike source\platform\config but there arent any config files in that directory. I think i might just do a re-format in a few days and hope that fixes it. Im totally stumped.

About the idea for the 16x2048 scale textures... i did think about this, but that idea is nuts, just imagine the size of the download on that? ONE 2048 texture is 16MB alone. I want this map to be playable by people -_-. Nah, ill consider the 4096 version as a final but the ground honestly doesnt look too bad with just the detail texture, it does a lot of work. The shadows idea is another one i thought about, i even thought about maybe just making ALL the trees along with collision meshes inside MAX and exporting the whole thing as a giant mesh but idk if that would go down so well with lighting and things. Ill maybe try it though.

One thing i did try that was super neat (i got the idea from Unity engine) was making a tree in Max, taking a render of it in side view orthographic, turning the render into a sprite which is V_clamped so it only faces the camera on the vertical and then putting the model of that tree inside the sprite with a fade distance of like min 256 max 512. at a distance it looks like a nice 3d shaded tree and when u get up close it IS a nice 3d shaded tree. Its a shame this method uses 2 entities. Entity count is going to be a big issue with a map this big, trying to get as many trees as i can in im going to have to sacrifice some things like mega beauty. Still it was an interesting idea.

[Mr. Happy]

Don't put all trees in 1 mesh as that would defeat the optimization benefits of instancing a single mesh. Do make groups of trees and variations though.

Didn't see the detail texture!

You can't really expect a normal map to show up at that scale, it just wouldn't do anything. Make the normal map from the detail texture and use blending on the ground texture so you can have it blend to itself but use a normal map for ground and a normal map for rock. Also I think you can use two detail textures this way.

[nub]

Yeah if you were to make all the trees one single model, then you couldn't make use of lods or anything, which will be critical in this map's optimization, along with view distances and fog.