CS Waterside: Source *UPDATED Mar 8* IMAGE HEAVY

[MayheM]

To counter the multiple rescue point I will be adding a random hostage spawn element. This will allow the T's to know where the hostages are but not the CT's at the start of each round. The reason for the multiple rescue points is to counter the "site at the rescue point and wait for the CT with the hostages" part of the game plan so many people use. I do agree with having the hostages moved away from the windows though. I plan to make them more centralized in the map or at least near interior walls. There are several areas that allow for good hiding inside for the T's. While outside is very open, inside has a lot of corners and keeps the CT's on their toes. I have jumped a few times as a CT in testing...

The original map is based on the idea that there is no singular plan of attack when a hostage scenario takes place. I wanted the house to be like I real house, not have two ways in and out. The one thing I try to do in my levels is make them more realistic. I may add some boards blocking windows or furniture propped up against them to stop entry, but i want the house to be pretty open.

As for the windows, I plan to either make or find a new model which will replace them. I want to make the trim of the house black. In the neighborhood around my work there are several houses with cedar siding that have black trim and it looks really nice. One thing for sure, the siding is staying. It may sound silly but I really like the texture. I am not sure I agree about the stone on the fireplace though. I think it looks good. The black trim also included the roof line as well. I think it will add a little more contrast to the house.

The one thing that is not really visible in this is the height variation in the map. the two side approaches are elevated while the middle is more of a straight shot in. The driveway is also elevated to stop the T's from sitting in the garage and sniping CT as they run up. There is also an underground approach that is not shown which exits from the basement. But in the original, the gameplay even with all the routes was pretty well balanced.

The Driveway texture has been redone and does in fact have a blend texture to it. I was having issue with it when this screenshot was taken but it is now clean and blended. I also plan to add spec maps to a lot of the textures to be sure they look wet being that it is raining in the map.

Anyway, I will give your critz another read when i get home. I value your opinion since you tend to be honest and have good insight. I will post more screens soon...

[no00dylan]

Looking nice, guy.

[MayheM]

More screens added to first post. and more coming soon...

[Smurftyours]

No rain please.

[MayheM]

Why no rain?

[Smurftyours]

Rains ugly and distracts from the great visuals of your map.

[MayheM]

Fair enough... I am not totally committed to the rain so I don't think losing it would be so bad. I do wish the rain in CS:S was like the rain in L4D2. Then I would tell you the rain is staying for sure.

[Gary]

You could still have thunder and lightning, as it would add to the atmosphere.

[Groxkiller585]

The rain is L4D is a trigger that uses particles i think. You could try either porting the particles or copying how they are made to make rain particles.

[MayheM]

True, Though my porting of L4D content has been unsuccessful to say the least. For some reason I can not extract anything from that game. I may give that a try again though. At least then I could have it start and stop raining , or even raining some rounds and not in others. That would be pretty freaking cool.

Also, this weekend I finally got detail sprites working in the map. I am now trying to find a happy medium between density and frame loss. I want the grass as dense as possible without losing too many fps.

Anyway, I will be posting new screenshots tonight. I have chanced the lighting inside, making it a bit brighter. you can now actually see in the theater. My next step I think is playing around with the caves. I want to add some more detail and make some areas for battles to happen. As they are, they are pretty linear with very little room to move, hide or find cover. I want to open some areas up to make them more inviting to use. I need to start on the skybox soon and finish the CT spawn. Still lots of work to be done...

[MayheM]

Original Post Updated...

[MayheM]

Original Post updated with newest screenshots.

[mookie]

Looks pretty sharp overall.

It seems like the shadows are hitting the grass sprites pretty hard and sporadically. I'm having trouble guessing whether they're individually placed or random details that go along with the material on the displacement. If they're the former, you can probably just go around and move or delete any that are causing trouble. Visually, it seems like they stand out from the grass below more than they need to. If they were sparser-looking (i.e. less blades, with more space between them) and/or shorter and/or closer in value to the grass below they might give a more natural look. Also, this seems like a well-kept property, so I'm not sure if they're really needed so much around the house itself. The bushes in the planters look very good.

The ambient light from the sky seems a little weak, and the direct light looks too bright (especially where it hits white things, like the box truck, which is glowing a bit).

The firelight in the cave seems unnecessarily harsh on the stones around it; you might try setting it more linear rather than quadratic, or taking some blue and a little green out of it. Visually, this area looks like a weak spot in the map. Adding a few larger rocks might help, or adding some things that support the fire (maybe a small stack of small firewood, or some round pieces cut from logs that people would have been sitting on). Cutting out a hole in the ceiling to let some light from the sky in might be an option to replace the fire, or to support it and allow the cave to be lit with two colours of light (blue-white skylight and red-orange shadows).

The waterfall looks good but too bright, considering that it's in a deep shadow.

The foyer looks nice, but the fish tank is lacking somehow. Usually they will be lit with a fairly harsh fluorescent white light, from fairly close up. But more generally, there is not a lot of colour to it, especially considering you can see the beige wall right through it. Brightly-colored pebbles and rocks would probably be a good starting place, but you could probably do just about anything here, like a grand canyon theme, or ruins of classical architecture, the lunar surface, etc. Also, if you have a weird prop up your sleeve that you've been dying to use somewhere, it could probably go in the tank. One thing that looks a bit odd is that the inside of the glass is not visible. If it doesn't show up because of the water for some reason, you could always remove the water and instead just simulate the surface with a small brush at the top, or extend the size of the frame so the surface is not even visible. The glass itself should be able to make the aquarium look better just by having a slight tint.

With the darker wood textures inside, and the vertically-striped wallpaper, you may want to go brighter and maybe more desaturated so they pick up more light.

The lighting inside definitely seems like it needs a lot of work. The kitchen looks especially bad (under-lit), and the lighting around the bar looks very strange.

I'd start out by thinking about what is being lit by a particular group of lights, then try t distribute the lights as evenly as possible over it. For example, the island in the kitchen looks pretty much square, so I'd put either a single light directly over the center, or a group of four lights arranged so that each is over the center of a quarter of the counter. The bar would follow a similar theory, although anywhere that you're going to run into a wall it probably a good place to leave some dead area, by deleting the two lights that are close to the walls, and just adjusting the remaining four to cover the L-shape of the bar more or less the way they are.

The recessed ceiling lights in general need to be casting more light. The outer angle probably needs to be made larger, the inner angle might need to as well. The three over the island and the six on the upper part of the living room ceiling should each be plenty to light their rooms. The kitchen can definitely be supplemented by other lights as well. You've got one over the range, but some kind of light directly over the sink is almost a given, and small fluorescent fixtures under the cabinets to light some of the countertop sections would be likely as well. The fixture over the kitchen table looks too low (like it would get in the way), and the table itself (and especially the chairs) looks too high (it looks higher than the counters). The tabletop itself might be worth doing with brushes, so that it will cast a shadow, and light will bounce off it (depends on how the lighting is looking otherwise). The light fixture over that table itself looks like it could cast a fair amount of light for almost 360°. The potted plant on the table is something that could definitely go.

The seating in the theater is clustered very tightly in the middle, making the perimeter of the room seem very dead. Things like framed posters or art on the side walls, or paneling below the chair rail might be good. The grey-white segment of wall is visually distracting to me, probably because it sticks out a bit in contrast to the darker wall above. I'm hoping there's a counter or snack bar of some sort at the back of the room. I figure if I was building a room myself to be a dedicated theater, a popcorn popper and soda fountain would be essential.

What can be seen of the basement looks good, but maybe a bit under-lit.

The black moulding at the top of the exterior walls definitely clashes with the rest of the exterior. Black and brown and grey is just too much.

[MayheM]

I have actually started working on some of the things you mentioned. Some things I have tried and just did not work right. Right now I am working a lot on textures and have started creating all new wallpaper for the entire house. I am thinking about making the siding of the house a little darker, but I walk past at least 5 houses every day that have cedar shake siding with black trim. It is very common. The shudders are actually black as well. I need to edit them to pull the contrast down a bit since the bumpmap should work fine by itself.

The grass are detail sprites and yeah I know what you mean by the odd coloring. I am not really sure how to counter that. The simple answer to the fact they are around the house despite the well manicured look of the rest of the landscaping is... well... it looked bland without it. I may try and make a second lower cut crass to use around the house and also like you said adjust the color to match the value of the base grass texture.

I am right with you on the indoor lighting. I already have an idea for the kitchen. A single florescent light above the island with the recessed lights surrounding it would bring more light as well as be a more realistic look. I agree with the plant needing to go from the table, it does look like shit.

The caves, they have been a bit of a pain to light. Originally I was planning on having them lit by, as you suggested, holes to let in natural light. The problem is, the caves are just below the house and surrounding areas. There are no places to put holes. I tired to put a grate in the front lawn and that was removed quickly since it looked like ass. I have also thought of adding glow sticks around, and i have messed with adding small gas lanterns as well. But that area needs more detail for sure.

The theater does need some details. I plan on adding some stuff like posters, and Ironically I have an area for a popcorn machine. I will likely change that room a bit as far as textures and maybe even use some different lighting.

Finally the exterior light. I tell you what, HDR is a bitch to control. The super bright whites, whether its the box truck or the waterfall are a big issue. I have been playing with the lighting trying to eliminate that and have had little luck. But I plan to continue with that until I get it just right.

I will be working on all this over the weekend and will likely have some new shots next week. Thanks mookie for the feedback. Your crits are very helpful. Some people like to have others blow smoke up their asses all day long, While I want my stuff to be as good as it can be. So hearing good constructive crits helps me achieve this.

[RA7]

NEW PICS = NAAIIICCEEE