PackBSP: Working on L4D2 support, any L4D2 mappers?

[Terr]

I'm currently working on adding L4D2 support to packbsp (which is the "under construction" part) and was wondering if anyone who has made L4D2 add-on campaigns (or single maps) is around.

Particularly, I'm trying to figure out the how the L4D2 mapping workflow differs from working with games that are part of the conventional Source SDK, and what kinds of extra bits (like intro screens or map overviews) are involved.

So far it sounds like the main difference is that art assets for campaigns are copied to particular directory along with one or more maps and then VPK'ed, rather than inserted directly into the BSP. Does direct BSP packing still get used a lot in the L4D2 community?

[Dives]

Because of VPK support in L4D2, BSP packing is obsolete. I don't think adding L4D2 support would be worthwhile.

[Terr]

• I've seen some posts with people complaining about problems with Pakrat and L4D2, presumably because they want to package single maps. Are they just doing it wrong, or are there legitimate reasons to package "just a BSP" for L4D2?
• 90% of the work PackBSP does is detecting and exploring the network of dependencies in a given map. Once it has done that discovery process, it's relatively easy to switch what it does with those files.
• When an L4D2 mapper downloads a custom model or material, do they usually place it in the main game folder? If so, then there's still work to be done in terms of selectively copying from there into the add-on folder.
• Does the original L4D use a similar VPK method?

[Dives]

I really can't think of any reason you would want to use a packed bsp over a vpk. Some functions like custom soundcaches and soundscape files will only work if they're read out of a vpk. Only vpks can be launched from the in game lobby interface.

The detecting and exploring the network of dependencies might be useful for some L4D2 mappers but not if they put all their maps and custom files inside a directory in the addons folder to begin with, and just vpk it when you want to launch it through the interface.

L4D1 uses vpks too.

[Terr]

Hm. I could possibly flip the problem around so that PackBSP tells you what you don't need to put in your VPK

Do you know if Alien Swarm uses the same mechanisms?

[ThaiGrocer]

Hello there, terr. I'm bumping up this topic to give you an overview of my personal experiences with some aspects of workflow. L4D series VPK systems are similar but the L4D2 system is more robust and "community friendly". I used Pakrat in L4D1 to get a rough idea what files I needed to put into a VPK.

As you may already know, the main problem with a lot of custom campaigns now is missing assets when shipping to players. This is because the workflow requires us to dump our assets directly into the main folders (materials, models, particles, etc) in order to view or preview them in Hammer during development. The current workaround is keeping really, really organized or having a manually mirrored copy of custom stuff elsewhere.

It would be extremely helpful if PackBSP extended it's features to new issues that have arisen from the VPK system of recent Valve products, which is keeping track of what to ship AND what not to ship. Also, if you look at the update history for L4D2, assets that have the same path and name will override the original if it is not declared as an addon (it's then considered a "content pack" for custom models, etc.). I'm not sure how bug-free that system is, though.

[Terr]

For the last few days I've been going back and forth a lot on different designs, changes, and then second- and third-guessing previous conclusions...

VPKs are fundamentally different because it potentially represents a batch of maps, and maybe what I need to do is rewrite so that multiple maps at once is part of the core work-flow. (If you're working with an SDK that doesn't have VPKing, then it just limits your number of map-choices to one.)

So basically:

• Pick Steam Dir
• Pick Which SDK or Game to work with
• [Option to tweak "Asset Search Locations", ex. GCFs or folders]
• Pick maps (Possibly limited to just one)
• Option to tweak packing results
• Pick folder/file where everything should be sent to

Thus the entire campaign/expansion of maps is selected at the same time and packed as a unit. If you want to "clean out" assets that are no longer used, just make sure the destination add-on folder or VPK is empty.

_____

One potential ambiguity is this: Map BSP files are themselves locations for assets... So what happens when both map1.bsp and map2.bsp depend on a file called "X", but "X" exists in two places, once on the hard drive and also already-inside map1.bsp?

Map2 can't see inside Map1, so I put X into the VPK... But then when Map1 rolls around, which copy takes precedence? Does that cause unexpected results?

Also, if you look at the update history for L4D2, assets that have the same path and name will override the original if it is not declared as an addon (it's then considered a "content pack" for custom models, etc.).

So there's some metadata (or meta-files) inside the VPK that say whether to consider it a "content pack" versus an "add-on"?