Making a competitive map

[iTrump]

Anyone have any resources on getting a good idea for making a competitive CS:S map? websites, blogs, etc.

[Kubata]

Not off the top of my head, but I think a good place to start would be to take a look at some cpl or other "officially" used maps and take notice of their sight lines, choke points, and distances. Normally,

- If the map is a de map, one bomb site is easier to defend/harder to attack (long sight lines or a height advantage) while the other is easier to attack/harder to defend (multiple entry points or multiple entrance strategies)

- Generally symmetry works well as a base to start out on but I have to warn against sight lines. Nobody seems to care that most maps that are sniper heavy and a good map will have only certain areas where a sniper is effective.

- Height variety.

[iTrump]

Not off the top of my head, but I think a good place to start would be to take a look at some cpl or other "officially" used maps and take notice of their sight lines, choke points, and distances. Normally,

- If the map is a de map, one bomb site is easier to defend/harder to attack (long sight lines or a height advantage) while the other is easier to attack/harder to defend (multiple entry points or multiple entrance strategies)

- Generally symmetry works well as a base to start out on but I have to warn against sight lines. Nobody seems to care that most maps that are sniper heavy and a good map will have only certain areas where a sniper is effective.

- Height variety.

Thanks i have been looking at de_season and taking notes on the map. And i should probably start looking at sight lines. Should I purposely make sight lines or not?

[Kubata]

Sight lines is a general term for the line of sight that a player has in a given area of the map and it has a bad wrap. Sight lines can be good - you want to have a open sight lines (aka just an open area) in a bomb area generally (You don't want a maze as a bomb area, that's a nightmare for cts). But really, you can do what you want, it depends on the type of map you want to create. What's dangerous is when the map is a series of hallways (or straight-ish paths or whatever) connected by rooms (or areas).

This isn't an interesting map type and snipers rule on these maps because they minimize range by zooming in. All other players see a tiny player in the distance except players with a sniper rifle.

If your goal is a nice, balanced, diverse map then I would say smaller is better (so much of a typical cs map gets ignored completely). Go for height variety and focus on directing players to choke points (fight areas) in interesting ways.

[cz_squishy]

http://www.nodraw.net/2009/12/mapping-f ... -audience/

[BubbleQ]

Use this serach phrase: ben's small bible of realistic multiplayer leveldesign

That is best guide I have ever read, allthrough I could just find about and crytek updated version. Got an own old copy on pappers though hehe. But you so you look out for the no competetive cysis things

Also, as simple as he draws the very basics of a map, only lines and such, you SHOULD do the same!

[marks]

If you're specifically designing this for competetive play, hit me up. I played CS1.6 at an international level (WCG, WSVG), and cs:s at a national level also - I'd be happy to give you some tips and feedback.

[iTrump]

If you're specifically designing this for competetive play, hit me up. I played CS1.6 at an international level (WCG, WSVG), and cs:s at a national level also - I'd be happy to give you some tips and feedback.

Thanks man. Im working on one of the bombsites right now and im liking the look and feel of it too. Ill be sure to let you play it when I finish it.

[cashed]

I made season as well, and a couple other competitive maps. Post any questions here if you'd like. You mainly just have to make a pub like map. General rule of thumb would be 3-4 entrances per bomb site. generally only one 3 entrance site as well. (think inferno b, dust2 b site)

[iTrump]

I made season as well, and a couple other competitive maps. Post any questions here if you'd like. You mainly just have to make a pub like map. General rule of thumb would be 3-4 entrances per bomb site. generally only one 3 entrance site as well. (think inferno b, dust2 b site)

Oh cool I didnt know you had an account on here. Well i got a few questions right now.

1. Should one bombsite be closer to the Counter-Terrorists and the other farther away, or ruffly the same distance?

2. Should you really worry about visuals. I know you want to make the level look realistic but how far should you go with detail?

3. When should you start placing boxes and other obstacles in your map? After you have the whole layout finalized or?

[Kosire]

I made season as well, and a couple other competitive maps. Post any questions here if you'd like. You mainly just have to make a pub like map. General rule of thumb would be 3-4 entrances per bomb site. generally only one 3 entrance site as well. (think inferno b, dust2 b site)

Oh cool I didnt know you had an account on here. Well i got a few questions right now.

1. Should one bombsite be closer to the Counter-Terrorists and the other farther away, or ruffly the same distance?

2. Should you really worry about visuals. I know you want to make the level look realistic but how far should you go with detail?

3. When should you start placing boxes and other obstacles in your map? After you have the whole layout finalized or?

1. The CT's should have a few secounds to arrive at the bombsite before the terrorists come. That way the t's wont takeover a site before they get to it, and it will still give the terrorist a good time if they get a good spawn close to one site over the other (think de_nuke from the t spawn in front or terrorist spawn closest to B site in dust2)

2. That's really up to you, I prefer to have them good looking with details, I don't like the visuals of say de_cpl_mill, too clean.

3. Boxes and obstacles are placed to cover and to break long sight lines for awps and that. So you can't look all the way from one bombsite to another for example.

[marks]

That's not really true. If you look at B bombsite on Dust2 in cs1.6 - if T and CT have equal perfect spawns for B, T's can flash any CT's entering the bombsite due to the timings. However, CT's can also flash any T's entering the bombsite at the same time; so, often if you're rushing to B as T, and CT's are expecting early B pressure - you end up with both teams flashing each other pretty much.

The most important things to start with are the timings from spawns to any position you can flash into a bombsite. These are key gameplay breakers if one team is able to pour flashes into entrance chokes while the other is not. Most of the timings should be pretty equal actually, for both teams arriving at the chokes/sites. An exception ot this is like CT catwalk / short on dust2. CT's can boost players from CT spawn onto short to counter early pushes, which comes at the expensive of being weak to early long pressure.

Just post up the layout and/or early BSP's tbh.

[cashed]

All great suggestions.

1. Typically like Kosire mentioned. Ct's can have a more favorably close bombsite, like A on Dust2. And 1 close to same timings with opposite team. I mean close as in a CT should be able to get to some areas ok, not the entire site.

2. Visuals is up to you and your creative mind. Level arting is a huge factor determining likeability imo, and will make your map rise above the crop no matter the gameplay. Ignore the "too much clutter" argument as it's moot. Limit barrels, or physics props you run into. Or check the "debris" in the options of that model. It will let players pass through with no "bumping"

3. Placing cover/boxes should be part of the design process. Placing after for the sake of cover is afterthought level design. Doesn't always work. For iteration sure, areas might need a bit more cover, but get your general layout first including cover pieces.

[BaRRaKID]

What you want to achieve is something like this:



- Start by creating the CT spawn

- Connect the CT spawn to the two bombsites which should be on opposite ends of the map. One of the bombsites should be closer to the CT Spawn (the player should be able to get to that BS choke point in 3 to 5 seconds), the other a bit further way (less than 10 seconds to get to the choke points). Please also remember that CTs will use this path (BSA-CTSpawn-BSB) to fast rotate between bomb sites after the bomb is planted, so the total time it takes to get from BSA to BSB trough the CT spawn should be less then 15 seconds, this is because in competitive play the bomb explodes 35 seconds after it was planted (although the default time is 45 seconds) and it takes 5 or 10 seconds, depending on the player having a defuse kit or not, to defuse the bomb. So if the CTs get to the BS 15 seconds after the bomb was planted they have another 10 to 15 seconds to do the retake.

- After that create a path that connects both bomb sites directly. This path is very important for both teams. Before the bomb is planted Ts will use this path to fake which bombsite they are attacking. After the bomb is planted this is the path that the CTs will use to safely try to retake the bombsite and defuse the bomb. It should take longer to rotate between bombsites using this path than it takes using the CT spawn path (mentioned in the previous point), so something around 20 seconds, which leaves 5 to 1o seconds left to do the retake.
Many maps also limit the direction of movement in this path, that is they usually make it faster to move from BSA to BSB, than from BSB to BSA for example. That happens because one bomb site will always be easier to retake than the other, so by limiting the direction of the movement you can keep the timings equally fair for retakes on both bombsites.
For example in Dust 2 if you come from BSA through the stairs you can jump from the balcony into the middle ramp and use z-halls to get to bomsite b. if you're coming in the other direction you take almost 5 seconds more because you can't climb into the balcony, you've to go around it.

- It's very important to understand the job of these two paths. The path that connects BSA-CTS-BSB should be the fastest way to rotate between bombsites but also the less secure, that means that this path should be as open as possible and sniper friendly (but not too friendly).
The path that connects BSA and BSB directly should make the rotations take longer but also be more secure, that means lots of cover and narrow paths that favor the use of subs and pistols. This is a typical challenge/reward scenario, the harder the challenge the better the reward should be.

- After that add the T spawn and two paths that connect it directly to both bomb sites. Both teams should get to the bombsites ate the same time, but you don't have to be precise. If there are one or two seconds of difference then team that gets there last should have a clear view of the bombsite entrance in order to be able to slow down the other team using flasbangs.
The last thing to do for the Ts is to connect these two paths to the middle section (the one that connects BS A and BS B directly), this allows them to better use split tactics and do fakes. One of these connections should be open in order to favor snipers, and the other more closed in order to favor mid/close range combat. You can also connect the more open path to the CT spawn to add some early sniper action and more flanking tactics.

- Moving on to the bomb sites the BS closer to the CT spawn (BS A) should have 3 possible entrances, one which comes directly from the CT Spawn, one that comes directly from the T spawn and a third one that that allows the Ts to flank the CTs. This is the the bombsite that is usually defended by 3 CTs, and in which the Ts use more elaborate tactics, like 3-2 spits and stuff like that. The third entrance also usually favors gun and pistol fights, that means that it has lots of cover that make snipers useless.
The other bomb site (BS B) should only have 2 entrances, one that comes directly from the CT spawn, and another that comes from the T spawn. This is the bombsite that is usually used for rush tactics, and defended by just one or two CTs, since there is only one way in for both teams.
The last thing to remember is to add "safe areas" for both teams before each bomb site entrance. These are areas in which the players can take a few seconds to rest, think or wait for their team mates before they attack enemy, and usually also provide good defensive positions for the defending team.

- Finally it's also important that the bomb sites are placed at a higher level than the spawns. Besides aiding in navigation (go up to get to the bombsites, down to get to the team spawns) this also helps the defending team (which usually just have to wait for the other team ti take action, putting them at a disadvantage) giving them a better view of the battle field, and better aim since they are on a higher ground.

Edit: just noticed that the bomb sites on the picture are miss labeled, were it says BS A it should say BS B, and where it says BS B it should say BS A.

[DonPunch]

Each bombsite should have 3 entrances that can not all be covered from 1 location, requiring team work.