Model pimpage Thread

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Re: Model pimpage Thread

Postby Kanine01 on Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:56 am

Image

Speed model in about two hours.
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Re: Model pimpage Thread

Postby plagueofburia on Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:25 am

Hi, I created a carpet model based on a tile set it was suggested to do this. It seems to work the end carpet part of the texture is a little odd but feedback might help I have added height variations to the Z axis of the carpet, that could not be possible with a tiled brush. This hopefully will cast varied shadows under the carpet on the floors.

I used 4 512 x 512 sized textures as they were the same size as the original tile set.

Image

Image

I have added extra edge loops to give variation to the meshes perhaps to many edge loops.
Image

Something with the alpha is really strange I can mess with alpha clipping in Blender but when I select the object the alpha of the texture changes, does anyone know if I have done something wrong with the alpha? or why this happens? or this this just blender?

Image

Image
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Re: Model pimpage Thread

Postby Black_Stormy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:08 am

Don't worry about how your alpha channel behaves in blender, source handles it totally differently. You have far too many edgeloops there. You can use tris on a model like this, there's no reason to have all those extra verts for the sake of loop flow.
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Re: Model pimpage Thread

Postby kraid on Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:04 am

If i would do it as a model, I'd do it like this:
Image

Now for deforming i would add additional loops to the parts that need to be deformed:
Image

But i wouldn't use a model for this puropse in source.
The reason is simple, no possibility for lightmaps on props.

Since it covers such a big area with different lighting conditions, it would look odd.
You could use per vertex lighting as an approach, but it also might look strange depending on your light conditions and the vertex density of the mesh.
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Re: Model pimpage Thread

Postby [KIRBY] on Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:31 pm

you do realize that making a model is probably not really efficient way of doing it?
normally when I make carpets like these I just make them out of displacements, and since you have all custom textures for corners and such, you would have no problems doing this carpet with displacements
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Re: Model pimpage Thread

Postby Major Banter on Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:48 pm

Plague, get dropbox to host your images. Photobucket is a piece of shit.
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Re: Model pimpage Thread

Postby plagueofburia on Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:05 am

Sorry I did not know that photobucket would limit the images like this.

Cheers Major Banter, I signed up to use dropbox.

5 pictures
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/m8y11sa8qrz6 ... i1g0rAPsqa

There are various pictures of the carpets, I should name them better.

Pic3&4 shows new redone carpet tile set of textures for the floors, previously it had shadows that made it look strange like some kind of floating/magic carpet :-). The shadows for the most part have been erased this was a time consuming process but hope this is better.

Kirby-I like the idea of using the carpet as displacements the 1st and 2nd pictures show the carpets as displacement. The only problem is the textures were created as decals, so the colour looks a little odd , also the alpha channel for the texture is a little odd, it is my fault.

Is it possible to create another VMT and assign it to the same texture meaning that one texture could act as decal, overlay or a standard texture? There seems to be various options/ways to get the same task completed. I have gone 360 and decided to go back to brush tiles. The tiles I have now decide to use have a carpet surface prop while other tiles from the same set have a different surface prop.

Kraid-Thanks I did not know, regarding lightmaps, it does seem likely that there might be many problems for me in the future regarding the models I have created. I hope not though. Also I am grateful for showing how you would attempt to create these carpets, it sure helps.

Black_Stormy-Cool, I deleted a good amount of edgeloops but have not triangulated the faces yet, should I spend time on this model or leave it and go with tiled brushes. Pic 3&4 show tiled brushes while the 5th pic shows the model complete, made from different meshes. So far using flat planes it makes a total of 282 faces/564 tris. The side view shows variations of the Z axis. I like details like that for a basic model but is it worth it? Maybe if the models are split in parts it could be used in smaller areas somewhere or for extra detail?
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Re: Model pimpage Thread

Postby plagueofburia on Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:19 pm

These are some new basic window frames for the area, 2 types with 3 variations should be okay. I thought it would be a good idea if that have LOD as the model has a bevel modify. I think I need to delete some edge loops of the arch but is this okay so far, with the bevel?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uquhkc1scs0rd ... ndow_1.JPG.

I have an idea on how to UV unwrap this but perhaps the way it is modelled might make it difficult to UV unwrap. The tops and sides do not link to the bottom of the frame so I am not sure, if it is created correctly.
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Re: Model pimpage Thread

Postby kraid on Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:31 pm

I'm not exactly sure how these windows will be used in the map.
But i made a quick and basic example of a window that's meant to be placed in a window gap of the BSP:
Image

Since this is only a quick example, i didn't bevel any edge but used a soft edge shader instead.
A finished model could either have bevel edges or the shader baked into the normalmap.

However if this is the way you wanna use your windows as well, i'd suggest you to remove any face that's covered by bsp.

It doesn't really matter if you connect bottom and sides of the frame, in fact you could even do them as seperate models if you aim for even more variation.

I'd write and show some more things, but i'm affraid i have to leave now since my shift is starting in 30 minutes.
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Re: Model pimpage Thread

Postby plagueofburia on Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:43 pm

Thanks kraid, the window you have created looks great, I would never have thought that is not a bevel but it is a soft edge shader that is cool. I am not sure if I should delete the sides of my frame as part of the sides of the outer frame is shown a little.

This is a picture of where I might place the windows in hammer.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qro8qeile3kjn ... ndow_1.JPG

This is the size of one of the models in hammer the sides stick out a little
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m9tew93t5b9vz ... ndow_2.JPG

This shows the set there are two versions with 3 variations and 2 levels of Level of detail. The bevel looks cool on these windows but adds a lot of faces if these windows are to have a bevel it probably will need LOD.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2kxkidfe1vn0i ... ndow_2.JPG

This is a closer look of the windows the depth of the window
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c2v2ijp7ycs1p ... ndow_3.JPG

A closer look at the windows
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c2v2ijp7ycs1p ... ndow_3.JPG

The big block top arch part of the window is going to be separate but I want it to be part of the same UV sheet. From your pictures I think maybe my window inner frame should be separate from the outer frame.

The window is the shape of the texture from HL2 set of industrial walls.
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Re: Model pimpage Thread

Postby plagueofburia on Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:49 pm

I have one extra question what would be better to UV unwrap with the window having a bevel modifier applied or UV unwrap the mesh without the bevel modifier?
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Re: Model pimpage Thread

Postby kraid on Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:00 am

Depends on how blender handles the UV map when adding a bevel.
Since it creates new geometry, it either has to add the UV pieces of them as new flat faces or extends them from the existing UV layout.

Here's what my 3D app does on this shape:
https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/f652/4o1x156l23c54mp7g.jpg
But it also does this on a slightly different shape:
https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/0b67/nsb7b8d2btwfqs37g.jpg
In other words, you might be better off with UV mapping the beveled mesh.

One more thing you might want to try since you're using a bevel on the mesh.
Editing the vertex normals.
Example:
https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/4204/ely6v63p1dmpovw7g.jpg
Notice how well it gets rid of the nasty uniform shading and even produces some lovely rounded corners look without extra geometry or normalmap?

Ofc. you can still use a normalmap for surface details if you like:
https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/2071/w9wc9c92d55amsi7g.jpg

Also by using a single smoothing group for the mesh compared to hard edges on the bevels, you're reducing the vertex count and the draw calls the engine has to perform.
In fact, vertexcount is the same as on an unbeveled cube with hard edges on all 6 sides.

So if you're not planning to do your LoD models without hard edges (which might produce shading issues even visible from far distance) you won't even need to do LoDs, since they wouldn't reduce vertexcount and even increase draw calls.

The only downside of these beveled edges is that under certain circumstances, some very long and thin triangles might increase rendering time and maybe even produce calculation errors.

TBH, i never had issues with this so far.

The big block top arch part of the window is going to be separate but I want it to be part of the same UV sheet. From your pictures I think maybe my window inner frame should be separate from the outer frame.

At the beginning this seems to be the logical choice, but if there are a lot of windows that need to be placed, it might be a pain in the ass to align all these model parts correctly in hammer, beside boosting the objects count a lot.
The only reason for seperating these, would be the need of a different impact sound. Otherwise you should keep the whole window combined.
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Re: Model pimpage Thread

Postby Kanine01 on Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:25 am

Image
Image

I think I'm calling this finished.
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Re: Model pimpage Thread

Postby plagueofburia on Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:04 pm

Thanks kraid for all the advice.

I UV unwrapped the bevelled windows, had to redo some of the geometry. want to try and texture soon, thinking a stone type texture like the original not sure how difficult getting something similar will be.

Also spent time fixing things in the map and making other small props, like ceilings and wires for the building. Probably should not have done that yet.

I want to add variation to the office ceiling, HL2 had done similar things I will try and do something similar.
128x128 unit ceiling panel work in progress
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t1yff7xn1qfrt ... ling_1.JPG

various basic wires and basic ceiling parts.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zozzuslw04yv0 ... ling_2.JPG

Various pictures of the window

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mxip6r30z4no3 ... xture2.JPG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xtd6mgqtp6rct ... xture3.JPG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gkihid9efdx7k ... xture4.JPG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gaapssqpdykqi ... xture5.JPG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/grdkea4maypdk ... ture_6.JPG

In Blender does a sharp edge mean a hard edge? So far I have not used sharp edges that much, if I understand I should have created a simple window and put smooth faces over the whole window then use sharp edge on those edges that I wanted more definition.

These windows due to the bevel modifier has caused an increase in the polygon count, one full window has 360 faces while the full damaged version of the same window has 898 faces that is probably too much. The building so far on just 2 sides has over 20 windows I think this will eventually add up and lower the frame rate in the engine. LOD I think can help?

In this case the bevel is acting like smooth but at the expense of added geometry my bad. I had the simple versions of the windows but because I made so many changes during the bevel process I decided to delete the simple versions as the models had too many changes. I thought with this new bevelled window I could just delete edge loops and vertices if I am to create lower polyon version a Level Of Detail (LOD)version. Is this not the right direction?

I would like to try Xnormals to edit normals that might help , if I can understand it. I do not think blender has an internal normals edit function yet.

The only downside of these beveled edges is that under certain circumstances, some very long and thin triangles might increase rendering time and maybe even produce calculation errors.

TBH, i never had issues with this so far.


Perhaps it was best if I did not add a bevel but it does look better if the bevel is there. On the other side these bevels have the ability to produce these long triangle errors. Would this increase of 'render' and errors appear in hammer/game engine or in Blender or both? I hope there is no problems.

At the beginning this seems to be the logical choice, but if there are a lot of windows that need to be placed, it might be a pain in the ass to align all these model parts correctly in hammer, beside boosting the objects count a lot.
The only reason for seperating these, would be the need of a different impact sound. Otherwise you should keep the whole window combined.


This caused me to change how the set was to be created

This is a set of windows that consists of 28 parts and 12 that have full parts.
12-full windows(made up of the parts)
12-inner window frames
12-outer window frames
4-top arch frames

2 types of width, 2 different heights, each with 3 variations. Complete, damage complete and damaged.
With the parts also being separate there is more than enough I hope this gives as much variation as possible. One can use just the outer frames with a different window texture or the inner frame with a different outer frame, that is what I hope.

From what I understand I can use one texture sheet for all these parts, is this correct? (there is no glass)
Using one texture sheet should help with performance or should it not?

All 40 parts fit on one texture sheet, I am not sure how large the texture sheet should be, I was thinking 2048x2048 perhaps 2048 is too much. 1024x1024 I think the resolution won't be enough too many parts.

These stone type window models can replace all the textures that have windows on them.

This is the UV layout 2048x2048
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9l3zapv2nty11 ... xture1.JPG
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Re: Model pimpage Thread

Postby - Livewire - on Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:48 pm

It's been AGES since I've posted here, here's something I recently finished.

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