Polycount guideline

[Grim Tuesday]

So, I'm making a Source Mod, off of the Alien Swarm code base. We have a full team, with most of the knowledge required, but our modeler has one burning question remaining that we have been unable to find answers to:

What is a 'proper' polycount for various objects:

-Tiny props (stuff like small bottles, valves, etc...)
-Small props (stuff like hammers, train wheels, turning wheels etc...)
-Medium props (stuff like park benches, boilers, etc...)
-Big stuff (stuff like a DOOMSDAY DEVICE!)
-Viewmodels

We don't need exact number, but just a guideline on what to do for what. If some such guide already exists, I apologize, and ask that someone point me towards it!

[boing]

The easiest way would be to look at the valve stuff
Thats how i usualy do it

[BubbleQ]

Depends on how much attention the player is ment to have on the specific object. Alyx qhere around 12000 in hl2 I think and there was only one of her, the combines where built in around 7000-8000...

[Rick_D]

What is a 'proper' polycount for various objects:

-Tiny props (stuff like small bottles, valves, etc...)
-Small props (stuff like hammers, train wheels, turning wheels etc...)
-Medium props (stuff like park benches, boilers, etc...)
-Big stuff (stuff like a DOOMSDAY DEVICE!)
-Viewmodels

well this is a retarded question because everything is dependant on other factors. is it an fps game that is very slow paced and not very action-intensive? then use very high polycounts. is it a twitch based skill shooter in third person? then use low polycounts.
for a standard fps game on todays hardware i would do the following:

-Tiny props
~500 tris

-Small props
~1000 tris

-Medium props
~2500 tris

-Big stuff
~5000 tris

-Viewmodels
~10,000 tris

and make LODs for everything (remove ~50% triangles for each LOD step). the lower graphics settings will use lower LODs, so make them properly, and then you can have great detail for those that can afford it, and it'll run for those that can't.

again, it's a retarded question because of all the variables but those numbers should at least give you somewhere to start.

[Gary]

I wouldn't call it a retarded question, though Rick has a point.

The detail in objects is greatly dependent on the type of gameplay and role of the object.

If you got a cinematic scene, or one where you can tightly control whats going on, you can make a models very detailed(tens of thousands of polys). A good example is the ending scene of EP2, there is no dynamic action, so you can use your entire budget to make it look awesome:
Valve made the Mil Mi-8helicopter model with 25,024 polygons and with 2048 textures. Plus, the windows, walls and stuff are also high poly.

[stoopdapoop]

I wouldn't call it a retarded question, though Rick has a point.

Right? I'd argue that it's a good question because it's hard to answer concisely.

But here's the rule I use: Go crazy, as long as you're not trying to squeeze several vertexes into the same pixel you'll be alright, (and using LOD's helps solve this)

vertex shaders run about 1 million times faster an pixel shaders, Worrying about what shaders you use, texture resolutions, overdraw, and controlling visibility will earn you back a lot more performance than over-optimizing polygon counts. Obviously you don't want to waste, or cause unnecessary overdraw with overlapping polygons that face the same direction, but don't sweat using a lot of polygons to model a complex shape.

[Rick_D]

it's like asking how long is a piece of string, is all i meant.

[marks]

I was going to post literally that exact same analogy, then I scrolled down and Rick_D already had

also: it can (in some cases) be more efficient to render if you use more polys. Go figure.

[stoopdapoop]

That's not analogous at all. You guys are just being unnecessarily harsh for no reason. "How long is a piece of string" is completely unanswerable. But GrimTuesday is asking for, in his own words, guidelines, not exact amounts.

Everyone in this thread knows what he's asking, and has probably put a considerable amount of thought into their answers for their own projects. Acting like this is common knowledge or a dumb question seems silly to me. Especially considering how complex performance budgeting can get.

I'm done derailing this thread though, if either of any of you guys reply to this, then I'll definitely read it, but I won't defend my stance any further.

[Gary]

I agree with Stoop.

[marks]

It isn't "common knowledge", its a question that can only be answered by :

a) Experience
b) Knowing the variables involved
c) More experience

There is no such thing as a definitive answer. Without hammering out ALL of the specifics you can't even advise a ballpark estimate. You just have to guesstimate it as best you can yourself. And a lot of the time at the start you will get it wrong. But by getting it wrong, you learn to get it right.

[Stormy]

I've found that polycount really doesn't matter as much as I though it did. Polies are very cheap to render, one of the cheapest factors of 3d rendering, it's the textures and material effects that hog the ram and cpu. That said, you can't go nuts. I generally make a highpoly to bake from and that gives you a better idea of where you can cut polies or delete backfaces.

Since you're making a top down shooter you can go more crazy than most, because you can delete the polies that will be facing down. It's less about conserving polies for optimizations sake, rather to maximize each faces texture space. If you delete all the bottom faces from a model you could squeeze more pixels onto each face, making a 512* map look much higher than that.

Another tip is that normal/specular maps don't always have to be the same size as the diffuse. I've tested this a few times and I can not tell the difference between a 1024 and a 512 nor/spec on a prop. 256 starts to make things a little sketchy, but even that would be okay in a lot of cases. The only time when you really need a same size normal map is when it's a very detailed, single model, i.e characters or weapons. Normal maps aren't throw away detail, they still cost to run, same as specular.

I wish I had a benchmark tool fine enough to test single model comparisons, that would make these questions so much easier. This is the same question I was stuck on when I was starting out modelling, the answer I have found is that it only depends on one factor: how much detail you need your polies to define. Use normal maps to bake finer details in anywhere you can.

EDIT: I saw your modeler is using blender, get him to add me on steam and I'll try give him some pointers.

EDIT2:


Also I failed to mention that the center cylinder could be an 8 vert circle in LOD1, 6 in LOD2 and 4 in LOD3, try to do that kind of progression in and LOD models you have.

EDIT3: What marks said, it all comes down to experience and messing it up.

[Grim Tuesday]

Thanks for the help, all. I don't think there is anything my modeler would like more than to add you, Black_Stormy, I'll ask him. Again, thanks for all the help.

EDIT: Just as a note, we've converted ASW into an FPS, so we can't do optimization like removing the bottoms of objects.