marnamai's WIP thread (FINAL PUBLIC PLAYTEST V3_4)

[Riomaki]

Agree with that concern. I... actually never noticed the Strider. I heard it as I approached the rebel, but I didn't see it.

[DrAddicted]

I think the Strider works pretty fine as a "NOPE, I'm not going that way" - thing. You automatically walk to the rebels, which is pretty good!

Thank you marnamai for giving me a insight to your progress!

[marnamai]

pimped the sewer a little

[ErikKiller]

I'd buy that for a dollar!

[Deathbagel]

I did a video playthrough:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU63510TQTI

As you can see... I was a bit confused. I think this has less to do with the level design and more to do with my mental state when I played through this (though I do maintain that the ladder *looked* like it could be jumped to). Not being able to L-shift to sprint didn't help. Anyways I hope that this worst-case scenario playthrough is of some use.

[marnamai]

What really bothers me is why you chose to run towards danger (apc) instead of fighting it

I agree that the ladder is the worst part of the map, but I am out of ideas on how to improve it. Your playthrough made it very obvious that something has to be done about it.

and you found a bug, the strider arrives before the apc's death.

[ErikKiller]

...though I do maintain that the ladder *looked* like it could be jumped to...

Why? The APC is a pretty obvious boss battle.

[Michael Z.]

dito. First reaction. Jumping onwards the ladder. "maybe the rpg is behind the apc". Its not that common to defeat a apc with mines. Make it more obvious i.e. remove the sign. Overall i liked the map very much.a bit too much battle and the puzzles were a bit obvious. Btw i wanted to jump out of the glass in the garage but i got blocked for no obvious reason. You should use nons-cattering glass.

I like the looks, i like the details the coloring the overall feel of this map. Also great to see this z-leveling... i have to admit in the current state your map is way better than mine.

[marnamai]

gah, so I came up with a very simple solution. I was overthinking this problem way too much, I added a metal panel covering the ladder. So it doesn't look climbable from the players side of the bridge.

EriK also had a great suggestion to add some unplanted mines in the map prior to the apc battle, to remember players that they can be used as explosive projectiles.

@ Michael Z. hmm, yes that didn't occur to me that the player might think the weapon required for the battle could be behind the apc. I 'll need to do some player training with the mines.
Also, it isn't too late to pick up your game!


EDIT: V3_1 is up

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/163 ... ow_v3_1.7z

- fixed various small bugs
- added detailing in sewer and bridge debris
- beefed up combat in the zombie area after the sewers
- added extra cover hintnodes at battlelines to create more agressive movement
- added metal panel to block ladder

[Riomaki]

- So, I see what you're supposed to do with the Magnum now. The gap over the door, yeah? The thing is, you can collect it from the sides of the door as well. I think a standard Clip would resolve that, though I'm not sure if the Gravity Gun can pull/punt through a Clip brush.

- I think the smoke volume around your toxic goo is a bit too subtle and dark. Something a bit lower to the ground might work better. Don't forget you can join multiple brushes together to form smoke volumes. Doesn't always have to be a box.

- I love the new shanty town and the "RESIST" graffiti there.

- Disable collision on the garbage props with the trash bags. In the area just beyond the shanty town (where the Metrocops use the Manhacks), it's hard to go backward through that grate because you get caught on the collision.

- In that same area, after the Metrocops deploy the Manhacks, one or both will kind of run off. I'm not sure if they ever come back, but I'd kind of prefer if they kept attacking after deployment. A similar problem happens with the Metrocops who get grenaded by the Zombine. Some Metrocops will survive and not be very focused on the player.

- The Fast Zombie battle is a bit much, I feel. This is a very tight space for all the things that are happening here. The Zombine breaking through the fence also doesn't make a whole lot of sense given that Metrocops have taken cover just on the other side. Plus, the monster infighting wasn't as evident. An alternative setup might be: Player comes up the stairs and finds Metrocops in cover shooting at Zombies (as it previously was). After entering the space (or some death criteria), trigger howl and several Fast Zombies from behind the Metrocops. Some will focus on mauling the Metrocops while the others will go after the player. No fence, no Zombine. For me, in the first version, this was a good demonstration of how the Combine didn't have a strong grasp on this area.

- While crossing into the garage on the tow truck, I got killed by the garage door. I don't think the garage door needs to close as soon as it does - you can let the player touch the floor before doing it.

- For whatever reason, I still didn't see the point of the Combine generator. On revisit, I can see it powers a forcefield across the catwalk. I'd suggest cloning that forcefield to the player's side of the catwalk as well as adding a Combine camera there. The noise and flashing would draw the player's attention on the way to the garage, and then they could follow the wires or whatnot if they are still confused.

- I like that the Combine jump into the sniper sequence, but it sure looks silly. They have that one canals animation where they slip over the wall that might look better, if the heights work out. Maybe a rappel option?

- The green door that gets opened when the generator is disabled. Couple points - you can hear the Combine door lock if you operate the locked door from the other side, and the door lock prop itself has no backface, so you may not want to use it in the way you are. I don't know if parenting it to the door is an option?

- I like the Sniper Rifle segment! I feel the APC might arrive a bit too early. Also, the way the wall breaks down with the rocket is kind of... implausible? Not sure. The angle is very weird. Do you need the wall there at all? Maybe it's a forcefield that gets "overloaded"/sparks out when the sniper rifle is destroyed?

- There was a Metrocop half-submerged in the floor next to the oil tanker blockage.

- I still think the APC needs better feedback - especially on the first Hopper Mine. Even if you need to fake this by parenting effects to the APC, it should be done.

- The APCs death works better than it did before. Though I have to admit, I'd still like it to blow up that sign assembly and have it collapse across the gap.

- As I followed the rebel to the hideout, I was still getting shot by Metrocops (there was one standing through the gap in the blue fence as we fade to black).

Minor Global Things:
- Combine door locks need red sprite / "deny when used" sound.

Very fun!

[marnamai]

- So, I see what you're supposed to do with the Magnum now. The gap over the door, yeah? The thing is, you can collect it from the sides of the door as well. I think a standard Clip would resolve that, though I'm not sure if the Gravity Gun can pull/punt through a Clip brush.
replaced with door with breakable padlock

- I think the smoke volume around your toxic goo is a bit too subtle and dark. Something a bit lower to the ground might work better. Don't forget you can join multiple brushes together to form smoke volumes. Doesn't always have to be a box.
increased alpha from 0.2 to 0.3

- I love the new shanty town and the "RESIST" graffiti there.
:D and I was thinking nobody would notice it

- Disable collision on the garbage props with the trash bags. In the area just beyond the shanty town (where the Metrocops use the Manhacks), it's hard to go backward through that grate because you get caught on the collision.
disabled collision + lowered displacement

- In that same area, after the Metrocops deploy the Manhacks, one or both will kind of run off. I'm not sure if they ever come back, but I'd kind of prefer if they kept attacking after deployment. A similar problem happens with the Metrocops who get grenaded by the Zombine. Some Metrocops will survive and not be very focused on the player.
sent kill input to metrocops once player passes certain point

- The Fast Zombie battle is a bit much, I feel. This is a very tight space for all the things that are happening here. The Zombine breaking through the fence also doesn't make a whole lot of sense given that Metrocops have taken cover just on the other side. Plus, the monster infighting wasn't as evident. An alternative setup might be: Player comes up the stairs and finds Metrocops in cover shooting at Zombies (as it previously was). After entering the space (or some death criteria), trigger howl and several Fast Zombies from behind the Metrocops. Some will focus on mauling the Metrocops while the others will go after the player. No fence, no Zombine. For me, in the first version, this was a good demonstration of how the Combine didn't have a strong grasp on this area.
area requires extensive rebalancing, moved zombine way back, reduced overal amount of zombies in the area, cops spawn in cover now

- While crossing into the garage on the tow truck, I got killed by the garage door. I don't think the garage door needs to close as soon as it does - you can let the player touch the floor before doing it.
moved close trigger further away from the gate

- For whatever reason, I still didn't see the point of the Combine generator. On revisit, I can see it powers a forcefield across the catwalk. I'd suggest cloning that forcefield to the player's side of the catwalk as well as adding a Combine camera there. The noise and flashing would draw the player's attention on the way to the garage, and then they could follow the wires or whatnot if they are still confused.
duplicated combine fence to otherside of bridge, camera model clips through bridge when idle, not an option

- I like that the Combine jump into the sniper sequence, but it sure looks silly. They have that one canals animation where they slip over the wall that might look better, if the heights work out. Maybe a rappel option?
that jump animation requires a certain set height, I 'll see if it's usable there.

- The green door that gets opened when the generator is disabled. Couple points - you can hear the Combine door lock if you operate the locked door from the other side, and the door lock prop itself has no backface, so you may not want to use it in the way you are. I don't know if parenting it to the door is an option?

might move lock to the other side of the door and parent it to the door ...

- I like the Sniper Rifle segment! I feel the APC might arrive a bit too early. Also, the way the wall breaks down with the rocket is kind of... implausible? Not sure. The angle is very weird. Do you need the wall there at all? Maybe it's a forcefield that gets "overloaded"/sparks out when the sniper rifle is destroyed?

interesting suggestion, my initial intention was to constrain the player inside that tower untill he killed enough cops with the sniperrifle, the wall exploding does seem a bit hacky.

- There was a Metrocop half-submerged in the floor next to the oil tanker blockage.
weird, I also started noticing this bug, not sure why it's happening, need to investigate!
EDIT: I think it's happening since I made the bridge into displacements

- I still think the APC needs better feedback - especially on the first Hopper Mine. Even if you need to fake this by parenting effects to the APC, it should be done.
the current setup works, not a main priority

- The APCs death works better than it did before. Though I have to admit, I'd still like it to blow up that sign assembly and have it collapse across the gap.
yet, I haven't changed a thing on the apc battle since the previous version :p

- As I followed the rebel to the hideout, I was still getting shot by Metrocops (there was one standing through the gap in the blue fence as we fade to black).
fixed by killing metrocops via kill input

Minor Global Things:
- Combine door locks need red sprite / "deny when used" sound.
noted

Very fun!
Thanks

[Riomaki]

Yeah, by APC death, I meant the way you handled the metal wall and the ladder. That flows better. The ladder is out of sight and out of mind while you're fighting the APC. A couple other points about the APC. You know that the APC exists at the start of the level. You might want to throw a damage filter on it at the start just to prevent a player from affecting it before the battle. And second, I still have to echo Michael Z. and say that the Hopper Mines aren't an intuitive connection. It's not something that happens in the game, as far as I know. I think you are now trying to encourage the player to use them against the Sniper earlier on, which might plant the seed for them to try using them against the APC. It may work. But that's why I really feel the first hit on the APC needs to provoke some kind of big reaction so the player knows they're doing it right. Even if it's just a sound or a counterattack with rockets. Otherwise, the APC shows no real damage or reaction until it dies.

Regarding the smoke volume - I think it has more to do with how it seems to appear in two little clusters rather than the whole toxic area. I don't know how your volume(s) are positioned, but I think if it filled the whole area (or, at least, the space around where the player will likely travel) you'd get more bang-for-your-buck with it.

The camera would require building some kind of frame for it to fold into when not in use (or dead). Duplicating the forcefield over to the other side will help. When I looked a bit more at that area this morning, I thought maybe the spotlight is part of the problem too. You cast a big blue light on the tow truck and it draws my attention to the truck before I see the forcefield. It might work a bit better if the spotlight was focused on the forcefield (or if the newly place forcefield gave off light) and the garage entrance was a bit more subdued. Just food for thought.

I am sort of curious why your Metrocops jump so high before coming down in the first place. When I've dealt with 128 jump-downs in the past, it looked just fine. What I did, placement-wise, was have the upper info_node_hint sit only about 4 units away from the physical edge. I noticed when looking at your node graph that your nodes (particularly for the second, taller jump) start farther from the edge. Might be worth looking at.

You might try placing or adjusting an env_wind to get the precipitation ash to fall less evenly. I think the ash responds to env_wind. I could be wrong. If not, I know for sure that dustmotes do (and given that you can colorize those, they may look better if you keep the individual specks small).

[DerpyBlade]

Just finished playing your map really liked it, Felt awesome and had some great parts to it.
First time really reviewing someones map but anyway.

What I liked the most:

- Your attention to detail is great, It feels really well done and most areas really do look great.

- The Zombine chasing those metropolice was really cool, One of my favorite parts just to watch. Overall, I like your scripting for the zombies as well. (Zombies walking into the steam to show how hot it was is cool in my books)

- I liked how you rewarded the players for exploration, Though I presume most mappers do I felt you did it great and I enjoyed finding those crates full of Armour and such. (The amounts of times I fell of the ladder to get that to that square secret one)

- The start of the level to me had a good sense of flow and I could easily traverse while combating on both ground and near the toxic stuff.

- The sniper sequence was plain awesome, haven't played a single map that has utilized a player with a sniper rifle other than yours. (This may change)

- The resist decal made me giggle, the shanty town looked great overall, Really enjoyed going through it.



Stuff I didn't like:

- One of the ragdolls (decaying corpse) in that fast zombie sequence is below the mattress/inside it and it felt kinda weird to see it.

- The highway where the strider walks down feels empty to me. I presume it's more for the balancing of that APC Battle but it felt weird to look down a practically (APC remnants) empty highway to see that Goliath of a strider casually walking to me.

- Punting that generator with the combine ball in it made all of the props go bananas and I would presume that players who are on a slow health would have difficulty getting across without being crushed. I lost a small bit of hp in the progress of waiting for it to stop bouncing by one of the shelves.

- While using that health station and HEV station I disliked the lack of sound when used, Though this could of been a glitch. I'm not too sure. As well as a random combine sounding like he died above me. (In that little shed)

- In previous posts people have talked about the metrocops jumping down animation, I agree as it looks really weird right now.


I would of uploaded a video of my playthrough that I was recording but my computer BSOD'd right in the middle of playing (My computer likes to do this) as well as the game freezing every now and again (Think that's related to the previous)

Really like your map, Really good work and I hope you do well in the competition as I hope everyone else does.

Sorry if I'm a bit vague, I haven't really reviewed peoples work before.

Good luck!

[Riomaki]

I saw that ragdoll too.

I also echo what DerpyBlade said about the props around the Combine generator. You might want to change those blue prop_physics shelves into the static woodshelves prop. It might make things a bit cleaner there.

[marnamai]

I am pretty much done with the map. I need a final playtest to catch any remaining bugs or visual errors and inconsistencies in the map.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/163 ... arnamai.7z

INSTALL INSTRUCTIONS!

- Create a new folder named "custom" in ep2's root folder

- Copy-paste the overflow folder structure into it.
steam/steamapss/common/Half-life 2/ep2/custom/overflow/maps
steam/steamapss/common/Half-life 2/ep2/custom/overflow/models
steam/steamapss/common/Half-life 2/ep2/custom/overflow/scenes

- Launch Half-life 2: episode 2, open the console and type "map overflow_v3"