1187 Halfe-Life 2 - Episode Two mod released

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Re: 1187 Halfe-Life 2 - Episode Two mod released

Postby MrTwoVideoCards on Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:07 pm

Pink Panther wrote:I'll be honest, I haven't finished it yet but it's REALLY frustrating. Between being absolutely blind due to the way you guys implemented the flashlight, to having no idea where to go, to dealing with a sidekick who might as well be an 11 year old girl for how much of a sissy he is, to having not nearly enough ammo, to a broken ironsight mechanic (oh, LOTS of fun)... I hope it improves after the sewers, but thus far it's really disappointing.


Also, did you guys make the world darker (than it already is) using a bit of CC?
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Re: 1187 Halfe-Life 2 - Episode Two mod released

Postby Pink Panther on Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:37 pm

Okay, I'll try to write a review that will be helpful, despite how much I want to rant.

After reaching the train tunnel, I just gave up. This was quite clearly a learning project and I commend you for achieving so much material and original content, but the gameplay is just terrible. The first half hour of my playthrough consisted of wandering around a cramped apartment with absolutely no direction. First I jumped over the railing with the dead vortigaunt at the bottom - instant death despite the fall not being that severe. Reload (you were smart enough to put in autosaves at decent points, good job on that), try again. Wander around the apartments some more, pick up a key off of some dead guy at the front door, run all the way back up to the second floor to pick up a kitchen knife with which to cut up zombies and aliens.

Okay, of all my gripes, the knife mechanic had to be the most prominent (I'll get to the others later). You have the weapon play an impact sound when it hits ANYTHING - walls, floors, etc. . And the screen jerks around like someone is throttling you when you hit something. I have no way of telling if I'm hitting the dumb headcrabs apart from the blood particles (because I have no flashlight) and it's seriously no fun trying to run around and kill something that's 2 feet in front of you and miss.

That flooded room on the first floor -- seriously? Don't do that. From a realistic perspective, that room would not hold water. From a gameplay perspective, you're going to make a lot of people frustrated (myself, for one) when you lure us into an area with healthpacks, only to zap us if we touch the ground. Moving along, some Vortigaunt says a few lines... a weird hallway scene happens, we meet our sidekick; John.

John... I'm sorry pal, but you are the most annoying sidekick I have ever run across. Between having to babysit you so I can progress through the levels, to waiting for you to say a line BEFORE I can open a door/use a switch (more on that later)... you are just not a good sidekick. Your one-liners are flat out bad, your purpose in both story and gameplay is a mystery (in a bad way, never do with two characters that you can do with one), and hearing "PURSUNAL SPAYCE!!1!" everytime I need to walk down a doorway you're blocking gets really old, really fast.

So, John (somehow making it to the third floor of the apartment after meeting him on ground level -- makes no sense to me, also somehow locked a door behind him full of zombies that's "surely suicide") wants to rest in my apartment. We go back to my apartment, he 'rests' via turning on the TV, some report comes on announced by a girl who's accent was so thick it hurt to listen to anything she was saying (not that I cared). The TV report is about some big bad evil portal storm... thing, and after John's useless commentary; three vortigaunts spawn in my apartment. An unpleasant surprise, but I dispatch them. John's incredible wit and intellect deducts that he needs to find a wrench to open the door downstairs (why I can't just shoot it, we'll never know). We traverse the obnoxious apartments to find a wrench in a dark, closet sized workroom. The two of us head downstairs, and he opens it so I can go destroy (and I'm not exaggerating with this number) roughly two dozen zombies in a recently un-barricaded tunnel.

This is where things just get really bad. It's no fun to fight the same enemy over, and over, and over ad nauseum. Yes, perhaps it's realistic that several people were turned into zombies in that tunnel -- but that doesn't make it fun to fight them. Your item placement was sporadic and left me wandering all around the street trying to find health and ammo, and the difficulty was just absurd (on Normal, mind you).

The ironsights, whether this is poor playtesting or an oversight upon release just flat out do not work. No matter what key the toggle ironsight command is bound to, it just doesn't do anything in the campaign. Even the console command does squat. It works perfectly fine in the training course (which had no ending, by the way. Being left wandering around some lake after destroying a bunch of aliens/soldiers and a couple helicopters was a big letdown). This was frustrating beyond all belief. Half of my bullets were wasted hitting just NEXT to what I was aiming at, and the flashlight being attached to the end of (only some of) the guns was incredibly irritating. It's been said before by others on here, it's still true and I'm going to repeat their words: Excessive darkness in videogames is a frustrating chore, not a fun challenge.

There's no way I'm going to describe all of the things that frustrated me in enough detail, so I'm just going to try and sum things up:

The gameplay was really not fun. The flashlight being attached to only certain guns (which made no sense) was annoying, especially when reloading in pitch-black areas. The melee weapons (crowbar, knife) had far too much camera sway, and the way I was told whether I was hitting/missing something was poorly executed. The darkness was too extreme, you need more/brighter light in the ridiculously dark areas. The enemy spam was a chore, not fun (again, reloading in the dark with John McSissy blocking your retreat from a zombie about to eat your face is enough to cause an sv_cheats 1 godmode rampage). You need to differentiate between what can and cannot be broken. I ran all around the apartment after picking up the knife trying to break wooden planks, only to discover that they'd be broken when the game decided the story had to progress.

The NPC sidekick was a huge nuisance. Do NOT. EVER. NEVER. EVER. Make the player wait on an NPC when progressing through a level. Cut off the NPC's speech, and just assume the player isn't interested. (I'm looking at YOU, elevator in the sewer). His personality was just not appealing to me. His one-liners made me cringe, and having him point out something glaringly obvious that I discovered ten seconds ago just made me despise him. Don't drag me down to his pace, speed him up to mine.

The story... I didn't follow or even care about. Something about being in the Half-Life universe, we're trying to head to Amsterdam, there's a bunch of marines shootin' stuff up (Half-Life deja vu'...).

The mapping was pretty enough to look at, some areas were very blocky (the apartments) and others were so dark and identical looking (the sewers) that I found myself stuck and looking for a way to move forward only to discover a doorway right in my face that I couldn't make out.

There's so many things that need improvement, which is a huge disappointment because I was really excited to play this. I don't know who your playtesters were, but if you do make another SP game/map/mod, get input from people here and on other mapping forums -- they know what works and what doesn't.
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Re: 1187 Halfe-Life 2 - Episode Two mod released

Postby cz_squishy on Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:14 pm

Weapon glitch found:
Highlight to read:
Hold sprint and move around. While moving hold down the mouse button for a few seconds. Stop sprinting and release all your ammo in one shot! Useful with the smg and assault rifle against the tough zombies and for laughs
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Re: 1187 Halfe-Life 2 - Episode Two mod released

Postby joe_rogers_11155 on Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:49 pm

Pink Panther wrote:His review of "1187: Episode 1"

THIS

I can only hope my mod doesn't turn out like this one.

If you are one of those tl;dr folks, here's my super-quick run down...

Their mapping is decent in some places, bad in others, and rarely impressive anywhere.
Their new weapon system feels unfinished and untested. The iron sights feature seems purely cosmetic.
Their NPC teammate is more of an impediment than a true ally.
Their storytelling and writing are sub-par.

The fact that they were able to package this whole thing up and release it and patch it so quickly almost seems like wasted effort compared to the myriad of gameplay issues I encountered.

My biggest question is: What convinced them to release when they did? And how do I keep that from happening to me a few years down the road?
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Re: 1187 Halfe-Life 2 - Episode Two mod released

Postby Armageddon on Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:01 am

My own review,

The Weapons

I really like the weapon system, I liked when you jump it plays a jumping animation on your weapon, same with crouching and sprint, it felt really realistic. The weapons selection was really bad though, there were always space between the weapons, they were in the wrong slots most of the time and it was just hard to select the gun I want, I always use my keyboard numbers to select a weapon (because I'm pro like that) and the fact that the melee weapons and pistols, ect. were all moved up one slot threw me WAY off. So I went into the option and made the key '1' go to 'weapons slot 2' and I did this for all the others. I found out this was bad because I had to heal John every 5 seconds and I moved the 'weapons slot 1' key to '0', but more on that later. I really, REALLY hated that there was no flashlight on my two favorite weapons, the M4A1 and Magnum, the whole game was pretty much dark and I always had to switch to another gun to see what was going on. This brings me to my next point, when you pull out a weapon, lets say I pull out the beretta pistol (I think it's called that) it takes more than a second for the 'pull out' animation to finish and that really sucks when I'm in the middle of a fight. The whack with the weapons was pretty cool, and said in the otehr review, whenever you hit ANYTHING it played this flesh hitting sound which got old really fast, and it never left a mark on anything (not that it would in real life) it would have been nice to see some dust or something when you whacked a wall so you know you hit it. My final gripes, when I reload I can't stop and whack things which killed me a lot of times because I always reload after I kill something there is no way to cancel it it whack, the reload animations are WAY to long. Half the time I died because the reloading was to long and I couldn't see anything because the flash light was moving with the gun, or the gun didn't have a flashlight, this should really tell you that your mod is too dark.

The Levels

I don't have much to say about this really, they looked fairly good. Some places look terrible though, like the subway part where the Zen goo stone thing spread, it just looked really bad. I HATED the mod ads in your maps, they were just stupid to add really.

The John

Okay, John just sucked, from the trailers I thought he would be a cool guy and feel like your friend when you play, this however is not true, he is just bad, from the one-liners to his shooting and constant dying and not being able to keep up with me. He felt like Rosh Penin from Jedi Knights 3, if you've ever played that you know what I'm talking about. I always thought he was going to back stab me and that I kept healing him for nothing. He was a huge pain in the neck during the subway tunnels (Speaking of that it had over 30 zombies, and half of them were the re-skinned zombines that had 1000 health) he couldn't keep up with me, since I was bunny hopping and jumping around them. He kept dying and I had to go back and then that killed me. A good reference for a companion in a game would be Nightmare House 2, the part with the soldiers, that was awesome, because they HELPED you not vice versa. And John's voice was just ANNOYING, he was always whining and it just hurt. One last thing, it always saved before his long speeches that were never canceled, like when you walk into that room with the dead girl and the notes, he says something that takes him forever and right after that I died and I had to hear the whole thing again and then wait for him to go to the keypad. This happened a lot.

The Models

I noticed that you got a lot of models from... other, places. And you didn't make them, which really made most of the places look bad because your bad models didn't blend with the good stolen models. You weapon models looked BAD there was a giant white specular map on every gun and it really showed in the dark. Also, most of the smaller models (cans, suitcases, newspapers, and baskets) need to be set to the debris flag under the prop_physics flags. I kept walking on them and they were flinging me around the level.

The NPCs

This is something I really didn't like. Every NPC had triple the health, and there were just to many of them. I walked around a corner in that foggy town part, BOOM! Nine soldiers, NINE! Instant death. And the zombies were just hard, way to hard for zombies.

The Bottom Line

This mod really didn't live up to my expectations. I was hoping this would be the best single-player mod of the year, but it wasn't. I would still suggest downloading it if you like to see new things on the Source engine, but the gameplay and story were just lacking.
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Re: 1187 Halfe-Life 2 - Episode Two mod released

Postby joe_dirt976 on Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:51 am

glad to see you finished it. Can't wait to see it tomorrow.
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Re: 1187 Halfe-Life 2 - Episode Two mod released

Postby Corigami on Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:13 am

I can't agree with pink panther's review more, although I'd like to add a few of my own gripes: you can't look straight up or down. This might not be a problem for some games with little vertical gameplay, but here it was an extreme nuisance. You can't shoot barnacles as they drag you up. I couldn't shoot a helicopter several times because I couldn't look up far enough. The other big one is that you apparently removed the noclip command. Really? I can not think of one legitimate reason to do this other than to infuriate players who are stuck. I couldn't find where to go after the restaurant, and eventually I was sick of wandering and decided I would cheat to figure out where to go next. Then I find noclip is not a command. Instead of spending another half hour wandering around the level, I quit and uninstall the game. That was the second or third time the game just completely stopped being any fun and I was not going to stick it out anymore.
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Re: 1187 Halfe-Life 2 - Episode Two mod released

Postby joe_rogers_11155 on Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:15 am

Corigami wrote:The other big one is that you apparently removed the noclip command. Really? I can not think of one legitimate reason to do this other than to infuriate players who are stuck.

They pretty much agreed with this when i asked about it, they also said there were "secrets" in the level that they didn't want people to find via noclip. :(
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Re: 1187 Halfe-Life 2 - Episode Two mod released

Postby Kremator on Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:40 am

Here is my 1-image review of this great mod :

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RAPERAPERAPERAPERAPERAPERAPE
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Re: 1187 Halfe-Life 2 - Episode Two mod released

Postby Saxon on Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:24 am

I haven't played this mod but to be honest it doesn't look like a particularly enticing one. The mapping looks very sub-par; most of the original models look badly made; a lot of stock HL2 content has been really butchered.

It generally looks like a mod which was made without direction - although I expect it was one which was purposefully made to be a learning experience for the dev team. Such a thing is never bad, and I hope that the team learn from all their experience of working on the mod (and indeed from feedback provided by the community).
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Re: 1187 Halfe-Life 2 - Episode Two mod released

Postby Corigami on Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:34 pm

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Did anyone else think that, in the dark, the soldiers looked like sex slaves in leathers? I did :I
joe_rogers_11155 wrote:
Corigami wrote:The other big one is that you apparently removed the noclip command. Really? I can not think of one legitimate reason to do this other than to infuriate players who are stuck.

They pretty much agreed with this when i asked about it, they also said there were "secrets" in the level that they didn't want people to find via noclip. :(

Removing noclip to hide secrets is completely futile. A quick google and you'll be able to find them anyway, which would probably be easier than noclipping around the level looking for these "secrets"
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Re: 1187 Halfe-Life 2 - Episode Two mod released

Postby pk_hunter on Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:20 pm

Well after actually completing the mod, I was very surprised to return to the thread to find so many of you had given up on it. I thoroughly enjoyed myself for the most part... Well, for some of it.
Rather than doing a full review right now (I'm going to do a video review later) I'm going to at least challenge some of the points other interlopers have brought up regarding 1187.

John... I'm sorry pal, but you are the most annoying sidekick I have ever run across.

I disagree. Although his best dialogue is toward the end of the Crash Course, I thought that he was a perfectly acceptable character. He's pretty well voiced (compared to the standard seen in most single-player HL2 mods [OK, just see: The Citizen]) and he is a good plot device to keep the game moving forward.

The ironsights, whether this is poor playtesting or an oversight upon release just flat out do not work.

They worked fine for me. The manually zoomable scope was awesome.

training course (which had no ending, by the way. Being left wandering around some lake after destroying a bunch of aliens/soldiers and a couple helicopters was a big letdown).

It does have an ending. I appreciate you don't like John, but try actually listening to him.

The flashlight being attached to only certain guns (which made no sense)

You're saying every gun on the planet having a flashlight attached makes more sense?

The iron sights feature seems purely cosmetic.

Really?! I noticed a massive difference in recoil when using the sights over firing from the hip.

Zen

Xen ;)

I couldn't find where to go after the restaurant

The Sargent character tells you pretty explicitly where to go, and john even hints at it when you first see the sign for the restaurant.
Highlight to read:
Get in the car outside.


The mod is absolutely not without flaws, but just to release a game of this scale from a small modding team is a huge achievement, and quite a few of you are being waaay too harsh. Especially those of you who haven't even completed it.
It even has bonus maps, a hazard course and a developer commentary.
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Re: 1187 Halfe-Life 2 - Episode Two mod released

Postby Pink Panther on Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:43 pm

I disagree. Although his best dialogue is toward the end of the Crash Course, I thought that he was a perfectly acceptable character. He's pretty well voiced (compared to the standard seen in most single-player HL2 mods [OK, just see: The Citizen]) and he is a good plot device to keep the game moving forward.

I have no qualms with him as a character, I have a qualm with him as a sidekick. He could whine about the wrong type of milk for breakfast, as long as I don't have to continually hear it I don't care about his existence in the game. The voice acting I will admit was decent, there was no audible scratching or popping in the sound quality, but the fact was: He's just whiny. He goes one minute from outlining the glaringly obvious which makes him appear slow, to moaning about some commando's family who just tried to kill me (and did, several times).

It does have an ending. I appreciate you don't like John, but try actually listening to him.

I did, I couldn't hear him over himself because two of his voice lines were playing at the same time because I walked in and then back out of a doorway. (Yes, John... we have rocket launchers that can do that).

You're saying every gun on the planet having a flashlight attached makes more sense?

Not at all. I'm saying if I'm in a life and death situation where I need to see, I'm going to use my flashlight. Why our character is too dim-witted to use his flashlight at all times is beyond me, but if I can put the same flashlight on more than one gun, we've obviously thrown reasoning to the side and I should have that one flashlight on ALL my guns.

It's decidedly an accomplishment, there's no doubt about that. But I'm being harsh because I want the mod team to do better in the future and not make the same mistakes that causes the player to be so irritated that all the effort put into something like this isn't seen/enjoyed because it's just no fun. Telling the mod team that it sucks and they should quit modding would be too harsh (and nonconstructive).
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Re: 1187 Halfe-Life 2 - Episode Two mod released

Postby Kremator on Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:07 am

Yes we're a bit harsh but thats what reviews are for - unless we want to keep it to ourselves where we think the game could use improvement. In the end, it is to each his own but I'll have to agree with most people here that the mod is very unpolished - it also crashes a few times during my play which never happened ever on Source.
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Re: 1187 Halfe-Life 2 - Episode Two mod released

Postby jgoodroad on Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:55 am

interlopers has a "tough love" policy, it may seem like a douche policy but it works.

made me a better mapper.
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