Source Multi-player Missions.

[Epifire]

I came to discuss this because of some ideas some other Lopers' gave me a while back in the Steam chat, and here it goes. The following is rather more hypothetical, and is merely a presented idea in question.

I have always found multi-player missions and coop-games fun and generally unique, also due in part to the fact that people formulate their own strategies to complete it. I had a idea that has been attempted, and even done in smaller portions, but never taken the whole route.

The idea in concept would be to create a source engine survival (zombies, soldiers you name it), that was set in a vast sandbox world. Now naturally the enemies would advance, become harder, and eventually would prove devastating to the team, if not dealt with correctly. Has this been done in other engines? Yes of course it has in the simple form, but it would make it even more cool if we were to make the environment come to life and react to the battle within it.

Suggestions may include:
Earned weapon drops.
Bonus Objectives.
Puzzle Traps (meaning not entirely usable right away, until goals activate them).
Map Demolition (progressive destruction dealt by choices, made in-game)
Optional Bases (meaning defensive positions that can be activated, and turned into fortifications)
Beginning Or Ending Choreography/Cut-scene
Wave Counters, and so on.

I am purely presenting an idea, that naturally I could not manage alone. I know this would require a heavy undertaking, and would need a team, but I am asking more is this possible in Source?

This is my way of combining the best in survival game modes in times passed. I believe done right, the concept could take a whole new meaning, that is if done right. The main idea is to leave the players with available choices that would make or break events in the game, while still remaining in a survival mode.

I am all ears, and want to hear every ones opinion on this. Remember these are a lot of ideas, that I just want to discuss with people to hear their input.

[Smurftyours]

Same old same old, but then again some of the best times I've had is in games like Killing floor just chilling out killing waves of mindless shit.

[Ark11]

As great as a cast sandbox world would be, it's not possible in Source. You'd either have to modify the engine, or overkill on the optimisation of the map. Even then it might now work.

[Jordash]

If you didn't mined chopping it up into smaller maps (a la stalker) it is possible to a degree, I'm not sure destruction would work very well, particularly in a multiplayer environment. But at the same time an enormous undertaking.

I think you're better off working on an existing mod, rather trying to start a new one. If your skills are up to scratch, contact the ivan's secrets guys, they've got coop, and it's the closest source mod to your ideas which has a chance at actually being finished.

Plus they've been working on that for years with a great team and it still isn't finished, it truly shows how long these projects can take.

[LordDz]

Use Obsdian Conflict as your basemod?
But yes, I think it could work, just watch out for entity-limit.

on the other hand, wouldn't this sort of work in L4D2?

[Epifire]

I think you're better off working on an existing mod, rather trying to start a new one. If your skills are up to scratch, contact the ivan's secrets guys, they've got coop, and it's the closest source mod to your ideas which has a chance at actually being finished.

Plus they've been working on that for years with a great team and it still isn't finished, it truly shows how long these projects can take.

Where might these fellows be found at?

[Smurftyours]

Not to insult you, but I highly doubt your skill are up to par with the modding group for Ivan's Secrets considering it is a very, very high quality production.

[Epifire]

Not to insult you, but I highly doubt your skill are up to par with the modding group for Ivan's Secrets considering it is a very, very high quality production.

I am not saying I'm gonna up and join them, but if their mod setup is of any better use then the current standard versions, I would like to get in contact with them.

[Gary]

Use Obsdian Conflict as your basemod?
But yes, I think it could work, just watch out for entity-limit.

on the other hand, wouldn't this sort of work in L4D2?

OC is an established co-op mod and it's still got people working on it(it should be going to Steam relatively soon). So it's always an option. Though, as with any closed source mod; unless you talk the team into doing what you want, it will be difficult to do certain things(due to the lack of access to code).

I wonder if the entity limit is somewhere in the public codebase.

And why would this work in L4D2?

[LordDz]

Use Obsdian Conflict as your basemod?
But yes, I think it could work, just watch out for entity-limit.

on the other hand, wouldn't this sort of work in L4D2?

OC is an established co-op mod and it's still got people working on it(it should be going to Steam relatively soon). So it's always an option. Though, as with any closed source mod; unless you talk the team into doing what you want, it will be difficult to do certain things(due to the lack of access to code).

I wonder if the entity limit is somewhere in the public codebase.

And why would this work in L4D2?

I'm pretty sure you can do all of the things in this list in hammer:

Suggestions may include:
Earned weapon drops.
Bonus Objectives.
Puzzle Traps (meaning not entirely usable right away, until goals activate them).
Map Demolition (progressive destruction dealt by choices, made in-game)
Optional Bases (meaning defensive positions that can be activated, and turned into fortifications)
Beginning Or Ending Choreography/Cut-scene
Wave Counters, and so on.

Except that the Choreography might be overkill.

My reason that it would work in L4D2 was that it has Zombies, so with some work you could have a campaign on a map with "days" where each team would get score depending on how many days they lasted/if they managed to survive for the whole time.

[Gary]

Ah, I see. Although I could really see the entity limit being a problem if you set everything in the map.

[Epifire]

With an entity limit, doesn't that mean this would require a separate programmed controller based outside of the maps? Like some thing that would act as a global "entity/counter", if that makes sense.

That is my interpretation, but I am not a program expert I just know the basics on the bsp map structure.

[nub]

Something like the director AI in Left 4 Dead, you mean? I think, if it's even at all possible to code an AI like the director in to a mod that could handle the waves and scoring and whatnot, then the idea might work on a smaller scale rather than a huge sandbox world.

[Gary]

As far as I know, the director is nothing more than a system that looks at the player's weapons, health, ammo, (location?), and such and chooses how many and what kind of enemies to spawn.

If your good with logic, which any real coder should be, then coding such a system shouldn't be that difficult.

With an entity limit, doesn't that mean this would require a separate programmed controller based outside of the maps? Like some thing that would act as a global "entity/counter", if that makes sense.

For example, storing kills and such in an external location. Like a text file?
Is that what you mean?

[Epifire]

For example, storing kills and such in an external location. Like a text file?
Is that what you mean?

Well by that I meant some thing that wasn't a map added entity, that existed outside of the bsp. See I don't program and when I say that I mean a global kind of control system that would be across the board that could monitor everything the player does. This for example would do some thing along these lines... Player blows up building, and the global controller holds record so that later certain in game options will not appear due to the destroyed building, character, etc.

That is my understanding of it. I guess this would be some coded setup that would monitor the in-game responses, and act upon it's added condition entries. Now that is how my understanding of how that would be, and of course in a non-complicated way of saying it.