Steam arguments, Garry'sMod sales figures

[infernox3470]

The issue I have with Steam is the fact you don't actually own any of the games you buy through the service. You own a license for the game but Valve can delete your account if they want and you can't do anything about it.

About that, you never ever own any of the software you buy, you only have a license. If you've ever read the EULA when installing something it lets you know what your limitations are.

True, but I think the important difference is that those EULA's technically can't be enforced. The Steam one can.

[stoopdapoop]

are you saying you can't breach the contract with steam games, or pirate them?

Cause you're wrong

I do it alot, by letting friends play on my account, from their own machines.

(don't sue me, valve )

[infernox3470]

are you saying you can't breach the contract with steam games, or pirate them?

Cause you're wrong

I do it alot, by letting friends play on my account, from their own machines.

(don't sue me, valve )

Well of course you can, but if I have a EULA for a game DVD I own there's not really anything the publisher can do about it, they'd have to physically take the DVD away.

[Mess]

It's true, look at the whole idle servers / hats / weapon glitch enforcement Valve implemented in TF2... Steam is letting them keep an eye on their players, and then letting them enforce the EULAs better than any other system.

[ThePain]

Steam for me currently is running using 30 megs of RAM. Maybe 6 years ago you'd have a a point, but a computer today sells with a minimum of 4-8 gigs of ram in it. (I'm talking BestBuy and Wal-Mart computers come with 4 gigs of ram) 30 megs is completely acceptable with common standards. I myself am running with only 2 gigs of Ram on a 4 year old computer and I have never had any memory problems. If you've only got 512 mb than I have to be honest with you, It's $22.45 for a high quality 1 gig stick of DDR2 ram, you really don't have any valid excuses anymore. Go mow someone's lawn in an hour.

Steam isn't also a list of games. Steam is constantly checking back with the main servers for all of your games comparing all of their versions with the main list and constantly keeping all of them up to date with the latest patch. The community page is constantly keeping track of your friends list stats as well as Friends itself is acting as an IM client for you. (Trillian for me is currently using 25mb of ram, 5 less than steam)

Yes it is in writing that a Final patch will be issued in the even Steam goes out of business, and in fact the "Final Patch" does currently exist and is constantly updated as they offer new games on their service.

I'm getting to sound like a Fanboy at this point, but I've heard people just be completely wrong about Steam from Alpha to today, so I'm Jaded.

I can't speak for EU, but here it's better, much better than a game store. Game stores may not carry old stock, or they run out of copies of new releases, or they won't carry indie games. They won't give you a free extra copy when you lose or break your CD. You don't always know when a small time publisher releases because HALO 12 HOLY SHIT is in every store advertisement. There have been countless times I've gone to EB games and saw a 3 year old game on the shelf for 50 dollars and thought "That game is 20 on Steam, why the hell would I buy a physical copy???"

On steam the indie game gets a spotlight pop-up when the start Steam. You never have to worry about a Disk getting lost or scratched. If you want to play a game you bought in 2006 all you do is redownload it for free. They never run out of copies of new games. They're not going to delete your account for no reason, much like Microsoft is never going to take over your computer for their own personal purposes, even though it is explicitly in the EULA. (Yeah, go read your Windows EULA)

Of all the things Valve does wrong (and I can think of quite a few off the top of my head) STEAM is NOT one of them.

.

.

Oh, and as for Gearbox?

....Let's just say that I happen to know that their Thursday game nights happen to consists of the entire office playing L4D or TF2.

[AverageJoe]

I think it would be a cool move for valve if there was a "[_] Load My Games Only" option, or at least have it so that when you click on the desktop icon for the game, steam just runs the necessary checks for that one game and doesn't load anything else.

For me, this is more of a processor tick-tock issue than memory. I am running a 1.8GHz laptop and when I'm playing L4D or something, it runs just fine until someone messages me through steam and then everything bogs waaay down. I ctrl-tab and the everything freezes for like 40 seconds.
I don't mind if other people on steam can see me playing, but it would be nice to not have the community thing randomly pop-up, especially when it's a critical moment like a finale or whatever.

Oh and yeah, I get ~30 fps in L4D. The 2GB DRAM (not even ddr, lol) is what really keeps me afloat, not to mention my 7900GS SLi.

[Phott]

I think it would be a cool move for valve if there was a "[_] Load My Games Only" option, or at least have it so that when you click on the desktop icon for the game, steam just runs the necessary checks for that one game and doesn't load anything else.

For me, this is more of a processor tick-tock issue than memory. I am running a 1.8GHz laptop and when I'm playing L4D or something, it runs just fine until someone messages me through steam and then everything bogs waaay down. I ctrl-tab and the everything freezes for like 40 seconds.
I don't mind if other people on steam can see me playing, but it would be nice to not have the community thing randomly pop-up, especially when it's a critical moment like a finale or whatever.

Oh and yeah, I get ~30 fps in L4D. The 2GB DRAM (not even ddr, lol) is what really keeps me afloat, not to mention my 7900GS SLi.

Why are you tabbing out if you get a message on steam?
Shift+Tab open friends in-game.

[FlynT]

@Topic 1€=1$:
Bullshit! If i can get a game cheaper on steam, i buy it on steam if not i dont care and buy it somewhere else. You're not forced to buy a game on steam you can get any game in stores. I dont say that im happy with that 1€=1$ Bullshit but as a consumer i can decide what i do.

@Topic Fuck Steam:
Steam is FREE, you're even debt if you pay too much for a game. Steam has so much nice features no matter if you're a consumer or developer. You dont have to mess around with silly copy-protections, serials on paper or cd/dvd's you can chat with your friends and if you dont have friends or at least no friends on steam you can turn off the friends network, you dont need a community profile on steam all of this are optional features. And in times where 2gb or more ram is standard you can shit on a usage of 60mb, Firefox eats 100mb and up and no one cares.

Edit:
A Lite Steam Version would be great, no doubt!!

[Sathor]

I like Steam. Anyone claiming you don't own the games. It is true, as others already mentioned, you always only have a license. A DVD is a simple carrier of data. You own the DVD, not the content on it. Big difference. And as you have bought the game, you have a contract with Valve. It is in this contract that they will have to provide your games. They can't just say: Oh sorry, we take away your games. It is legally impossible. So don't worry.

I just love the possibility to access all the games easily, without using DVDs or different crap (although I buy most games still in stores, but those DVDs catch dust now).

Yesterday I bought Killing Floor via Steam, my first game ever bought over Steam. I think KF was never published on DVD. At least not in Germany. So, I guess there is truth in it. I guess smaller developer's have it easier publishing a game on Steam. The loss is not as high as with DVDs and the whole stuff, if the game does not sell so well.

So ... I like Steam. I didn't really have any problems with it so far. Most of those problems you read about is because of DU (Dumb User)

[AverageJoe]

Why are you tabbing out if you get a message on steam?
Shift+Tab open friends in-game.

I said ctrl tab...I changed it from shift tab cause my shift key is old and worn.

The only thing I'd like to see different with steam is the ability to load just the drm bit. I never use the store, I understand why it's there but I know I'm only going to buy what I intend to buy.

[Phott]

Why are you tabbing out if you get a message on steam?
Shift+Tab open friends in-game.

I said ctrl tab...I changed it from shift tab cause my shift key is old and worn.

The only thing I'd like to see different with steam is the ability to load just the drm bit. I never use the store, I understand why it's there but I know I'm only going to buy what I intend to buy.

Oh sorry, my bad. O.o

[Sacul15]

You've gotta love that word "exploit". Usually when used it means that someone has a good deal, or at least a moderately better one than they had before and are butthurt because they don't have more.

If Valve were to stop "exploiting" developers, most of their games would not be bought by nearly as many people, and some of the games would probably not even exist. For example, if it were not for Steam, its game promotion pages, easily accessible demos, and weekly deals, I would not own Audiosurf, KOTOR, the Brothers in Arms trilogy, Braid, Far Cry 2, or Mount and Blade, and countless demos that did not meet my expectations, but nevertheless informed me of the game's existence. I'm sure that many people are in a similar situation. Even if their commission rates are low, the companies that made these games are still better off. If they think the rate is too low, they should bargain for a better deal, or refuse to use the service. It's that simple.

As for pricing, at least here in the US, I get much better deals than I would at the store. Nearly all of my games I purchased when there was a deal going on, and they happen quite frequently. Sometimes it is in fact cheaper in stores (Oblivion was for me). Steam is just another option that is usually cheaper.

To sum up my opinions, customers do not have a right to cheap games, and developers do not have a right to a great distribution service with great financial benefits. If they do not like the terms of Steam, they (you) don't have to use it. Mostly, however, Steam benefits the gaming community at large and we would be worse off without it. Personally, I love it and I think every game ever made should be available on it. (Which reminds me of another point: without Steam, older games would have never gotten another sale. Jedi Knight- Dark Forces 2 anyone?)

On a last note, Steam-lite is probably a good idea. I personally love Steam Community and frequent patches, but for those who don't, it's not my right to tell them they need it. Maybe Valve will listen to you guys who want it, but for now I say to them just keep doing what you are doing. You are doing it well.

[Phott]

What I like about steam is that when new games come out, you don't have to worry about the games getting sold out like in the store and that you don't even have to go to the store. I don't see what's with this whine fest over steam, it's a free option to buying games and playing them without any real fuss.

[vcool]

On a last note, Steam-lite is probably a good idea. I personally love Steam Community and frequent patches, but for those who don't, it's not my right to tell them they need it. Maybe Valve will listen to you guys who want it, but for now I say to them just keep doing what you are doing. You are doing it well.

Yeah, Steam lite would be awesome. Something to install on a laptop for example. Or on a PC you will only use temporarily.

[AverageJoe]

I found this on Slashdot.org.
http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?c ... 359&tid=64
(entire post quoted)

As a guy who reads, trusts and respects slashdot and the community here, I figured I'd take the time to clarify my position since my intent has been construed out of context. As a gamer, I *love* Valve's games. Hell, I've *made* some of Valve's games! As a customer, I love Steam. I like owning a credential that I can use from any terminal and I like the software. There are other things I like, too. As a businessman, I appreciate the access to Valve's customers that they are providing with Steam. I think there's value to that access. I'm really happy that the Brothers in Arms games are available on Steam and I think Steam customers are really going to dig Borderlands. I have been and hope to be a partner to Valve for many years. From an industry perspective of digital distribution on the PC, I think Steam is doing it the best right now. They're in front and they're really getting value out of their leadership position with digital distribution on the PC. From an industry perspective, I believe that Steam would be even better off if it were a separate company. Trust issues that result from conflict of interest could be mitigated if Steam were a separate company. Take that only as analysis. It doesn't matter how much I trust Valve or how trustworthy Valve actually is - it's just perception within segments of the publishing and development community that, I guess, no one is really talking about. I'm on record in this article saying how I personally trust Valve. I was attempting to comment on perception from some angles of the industry. I also believe that gamers and customers and anyone making games using 3rd party digital distribution systems would be greatly benefited if Steam had some viable competitors. Competition generally drives higher quality products and services at lower prices. I can't see how anyone could argue against that point. If we love Steam, we should hope that as competition appears that it prompts the Steam folks to go faster and better towards improving the service and the pricing. In spite of the implication made in the original source article, I do not want Microsoft to control digital distribution on PC, but believe they (and others) could enter the space if they wanted to and help the competitive landscape and even, perhaps, help to standardize the landscape a bit. I believe that because Valve is a game maker that generally "gets it" I think there's a lot of value to the position they have and I'm really excited about the risk they took and the foresight Valve showed in paving the way there. These are not mutually exclusive feelings and they are all honest and forthright.