Fort Noesis L4D Campaign

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Re: Fort Noesis L4D Campaign

Postby no00dylan on Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:28 pm

Noesis_Interactive wrote:Ok, that feedback is more helpful since you guys are giving us details that we can try to improve on. This release is intended to be an open beta any way and hopefully we'll be able to fix some of the stuff you've mentioned for the final release. Can you guys do me a favor and email this feedback to "betatest@noesisinteractive.com" (just copy and paste your messages from this thread).
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Based on this, I would suggest posting maps in the "map pimpage" thread rather than making a fullblown news post on the "release" of a campaign.
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Re: Fort Noesis L4D Campaign

Postby wiggle987 on Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:37 pm

Dunno about you guys, but this is certainly one of the better looking user created L4D campaigns. Just a shame i've got l4d2 though! bk11
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Re: Fort Noesis L4D Campaign

Postby Fedora on Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:58 am

I'm having quite a bit of fun going through it. Currently I've only played the first two maps. It's true that it's not as tight on the visuals or even the gameplay as one might desire. It's got a sort of nostalgic old-school feel to it- feels like a mix of Half Life 1 and Source a lot of the time, given the use of ground space and detail. I don't mean that in a totally negative way, but it's probably not something you want people saying about your map. Still, the bottom line for me: considering the many custom l4d maps out there, this one is fun to play.

Biggest critique as a player: I get lost. Doubling back to check on where you are is bad in l4d. In the beginning of the first map, in the first screenshot posted actually, I didn't see the hole in the fence at all despite the blood smears leading to it. Yes, I'm totally clueless sometimes, but it seems like there ought to be some better indication there. Subtle lighting? Maybe have it emphasized in the intro fly-through? It was pretty much invisible to me from the door, anyway. In the second map it gets serious. Multiple times I thought I had been in the same place already and doubled back. I often didn't know what direction to head. The arrows help, but even they turned me around at one spot because I wasn't sure exactly where they were pointing. Some places look similar, some paths aren't obvious. A rule I'd stick to is; the player's next destination should be the first thing that catches his eye, especially in l4d. Lighting and other effects are a big help for this. Giving each section some distinct characteristics ensures the player won't have deja vu.

Other quips- Large spaces go unused and unneeded, like the rooftop on map 2, as well as a whole (completely dark) floor in the office building that you don't need to go through- there's an extra pistol right at the entrance and the rest can be ignored. Geometry and prop placement sometimes feel unrealistic, like they're put there for gameplay purposes but wouldn't be there in real life. Certain room connectors (hallways/stairs) feel slapped on, when they should feel like they were planned to be built there from the start. Abstract, I know. Those are my 2 cents as an amateur mapper. The visuals... others have already commented.

I think if this campaign is going to be the subject of tutorials, you should run through all of the fundamentals of level design (as laid out by Sjoerd Hourences De Jong or any of the greats) and make sure it is a shining example of them.
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Re: Fort Noesis L4D Campaign

Postby MrTwoVideoCards on Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:18 pm

What bothers me is that a company of such high elude would release something of this quality. Thats just sheer stupidity right there. Even more so a company that actually teaches people how to make content for a game engine.

I mean honestly, wouldn't you expect the guys teaching this kind of stuff to make a really awesome, and well done campaign? I could imagine all the people in the world that have bought all of your dvd's to see this, and come away greatly disappointed. It's horrible irony at best.

Did all of you guys seriously just wake up and walked into the office, sat on the meeting table and said:"THIS LOOKS GREAT, LETS RELEASE IT!". Honestly, I mean honestly. A company would know the difference, or at least understand this. Companies don't release poor content. They make their content shine, so they can show off just how awesome they are.

This makes you guys look dumb, and just sad. Don't come onto Interlopers thinking you guys can gain knowledge, or anything like that. It's just pure sadness. I cannot fathom how incredibly stupid your decision was to release content at this quality. This is something beginner mappers make, not people who actually run a company designed to show people how to make top-notch stuff. Maybe we should run your company, because you suck at it.

You guys rip people off by selling DVD's that needn't be sold, because all of the information contained in them is free on the internet. Hear that? Free. I have learned everything and more from reading off of the VDC, and when it came time to buy (yes I actually purchased your 'Advanced Level Design' DVD) I wanted my damn money back. It was a very poor compiled session, and made me feel that I was looking at a couple of youtube videos made by some random guy. There's no professionalism.

So you go ahead and think we are trolling, and don't want to help you. All of your mapping speaks for itself, and to help a COMPANY that can't map is trolling within itself.

Thank you Noesis, for giving us our first MAJOR FAIL of 2010!
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Re: Fort Noesis L4D Campaign

Postby Major Banter on Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:06 pm

Major is part of my name.

Sorry.
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Re: Fort Noesis L4D Campaign

Postby Megadude on Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:26 pm

MrTwoVideoCards wrote:Lots of words.


That was very harsh. The campaign may not have been of top quality, but I wouldn't class it as being something from beginner mappers. I think you are really overreacting and need to calm down and be more constructive instead of shoooting all those flames.
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Re: Fort Noesis L4D Campaign

Postby source-maps on Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:53 pm

Megadude wrote:
MrTwoVideoCards wrote:Lots of words.


That was very harsh. The campaign may not have been of top quality, but I wouldn't class it as being something from beginner mappers. I think you are really overreacting and need to calm down and be more constructive instead of shoooting all those flames.


well maybe hes 'over reacting' but he made some very good points
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Re: Fort Noesis L4D Campaign

Postby The Wanderer on Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:03 pm

MrTwoVideoCards wrote:...


If you're just going to go blow off steam, do it somewhere else. In no shape or form does the way you expressed yourself now help anyone in this thread. It's not constructive, doesn't sound professional and certainly doesn't fit as a reply to someone's work or towards someone's company.

I expected more out of you too MrTwoVideoCards, perhaps the way you reacted was the second fail in 2010.
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Re: Fort Noesis L4D Campaign

Postby trcc on Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:35 pm

The Wanderer wrote:
MrTwoVideoCards wrote:...


If you're just going to go blow off steam, do it somewhere else. In no shape or form does the way you expressed yourself now help anyone in this thread. It's not constructive, doesn't sound professional and certainly doesn't fit as a reply to someone's work or towards someone's company.

I expected more out of you too MrTwoVideoCards, perhaps the way you reacted was the second fail in 2010.


What is the first one? :roll:
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Re: Fort Noesis L4D Campaign

Postby MrTwoVideoCards on Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:42 pm

source-maps wrote:
Megadude wrote:
MrTwoVideoCards wrote:Lots of words.


That was very harsh. The campaign may not have been of top quality, but I wouldn't class it as being something from beginner mappers. I think you are really overreacting and need to calm down and be more constructive instead of shoooting all those flames.


well maybe hes 'over reacting' but he made some very good points


Perhaps I did, but it's true, I mean seriously, it's a whole company, not a team of monkeys. And cry some more 'The Wanderer'.
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Re: Fort Noesis L4D Campaign

Postby Mess on Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:47 pm

i have to agree with mrtwo. By releasing this, Noesis have shown little or no understanding of/regard to visuals or gameplay. A mistake on their part, as this will put people off buying their products.
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Re: Fort Noesis L4D Campaign

Postby Major Banter on Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:50 pm

I believe this is a thread for discussion of the mod and it's quality, neither flaming nor pisstaking. Watch what you type.
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Re: Fort Noesis L4D Campaign

Postby MrTwoVideoCards on Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:54 pm

Major Banter wrote:I believe this is a thread for discussion of the mod and it's quality, neither flaming nor pisstaking. Watch what you type.


I agree, but there are no excuses for why this company would allow a product of such quality to see public eyes. No excuse.
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Re: Fort Noesis L4D Campaign

Postby 1/4 Life on Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:59 pm

I agree with MrTwo. This campaign is ultra-low quality, and worst of all it's coming from a company that actually makes money selling mapping tutorials. As far as I'm concerned, looking at this map proves to me in my mind that they should stop selling mapping tutorials, or at least take the word 'advanced' off of every mapping tutorial they currently have available.

I expected far better from Noesis.
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Re: Fort Noesis L4D Campaign

Postby Megadude on Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:06 pm

I'm not sure if this will perhaps calm the rageaholics down a bit, but looking again at their website, it does say that the campaign is going to be the basis for a beginner L4D tutorial, which may be why it's not a shining example of mapping excellence.
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