Valve vs Zynga

[source-maps]

you didn't like Tf2 or portal either in the OB?
I still play tf2 daily

[vcool]

Go Bioware.

[MNM]

Thats a good point. I have played ME and while I certainly loved it (easily the best integration of player choice into a story I have ever seen), I just dont think it was at the same level of quality that Valve games always reach.

My list of complaints for ME:

1. Combat was competent but never particularly engaging. Sometimes had a few odd difficulty spikes.
2. Ally AI was not the best, which isn't great given that you spend the whole game with them.
3. Driving sections. lol...
4. All of the main storyline planets felt like linear corridors with a tiny set of rooms for your ship to dock at, for an open world game that was so immersion wrecking.
5. The exploration planets were a nice idea, but were just a bit of a dip in quality.

My list of complaints for HL2:

1. The rebels follow too closely.
2. Some aspects of the backstory arent fleshed out as fully as they could be.

I've spent years trying to criticise HL2, really I have. That's all I can come up with. A 20 minute section of the game that wasn't as fun as it should have been and the fact that they replaced some exposition with more gameplay. It's as damn near to the perfect game that anyone has yet come.

It's the sheer quality of Valve games that keeps me coming back to them over and over. I think that's why Ep3 has yet to be released, quality. They won't release it until they have something worthy of rounding off the most crticially acclaimed fps series on PC.

Then there's the fact that TF2 is the only multiplayer game that has ever - by design - made me laugh so I hard I was in tears. And they are still uppdating this game, two and one-half years after they were practically giving it away in a bundle cheaper than most single games. Sure, the demoman update was epic fail but its still the best multiplayer game out there for having a good time.

But then there's L4D. I can't give much of an opinion since I havent had much oportunity to play it, but I will concede that yes I'd much rather have EP3 instead. : )

So yeah, as much as I do like what BioWare have done, and I'm very pleased that they are snapping at Valve's heels so closely, at the end of the day they just put out gigantic nuggets of wholesome goodness. Meanwhile Valve have made 3 games that I have extreme difficulty in faulting.

That and ME was console only for about a year. ¬¬

Thanks for the good post.
Indeed, HL2 was one of the strongest experiences I ever had with gaming. But that was some three years ago, and a lot has changed. More and more games get to a level of perfection similar to HL2 and even beyond, like MGS4, Uncharted 2, Mass Effect 2 (the most[b][/b] epic fighting I ever had, I don't know how you can critisize that), and of course Dragon Age that to me, was a perfect 10.

HL2 can't hold Valve's torch forever. Just like Super Mario Bros. 1 can't, a great game is something to remember, but eventually you have to move on. And I'm afraid that since the Orange Box I moved on from Valve. They had nothing to offer that I wanted.

So eat the worm! BIOWARE OWNS

Portal.

Your turn...

[Unstoppable Florence]

Yeah it wasn't really my intention to claim that HL2 is so awesome that it makes up for what has prehaps been a less succesful few years. Heh, whoops.

What I was trying to get across is how the two companies' most complete works compare for me. Valve just hold the crown for me because their games are usually more polished and complete. At the end of the day, of course Valve are my champions; they are the reason I ever wanted to become a game dev.

[jgoodroad]

The problem is exactly what you just said. They are good in offense now. They shouldn't be. The demo was way funnier when he solved his problems by hanging back and being a grumpy jerk with explosives. The demoknight is basically an armoured scout: the role in uneccesary (already fulfilled) and is just not that fun to play against.

It was better when the unlocks just gave a new way to play the class that was a variant on a theme, not a total rebuild. Still, TF2 is still hella fun, and I'm glad you enjoyed the demoknight rushes. =P

I think they tried to balance that with the Scottish resistance...

and the more shotguns...the better.

[Zipfinator]

The problem is exactly what you just said. They are good in offense now. They shouldn't be. The demo was way funnier when he solved his problems by hanging back and being a grumpy jerk with explosives. The demoknight is basically an armoured scout: the role in uneccesary (already fulfilled) and is just not that fun to play against.

It was better when the unlocks just gave a new way to play the class that was a variant on a theme, not a total rebuild. Still, TF2 is still hella fun, and I'm glad you enjoyed the demoknight rushes. =P

A good Demoman is good at playing offense with the stock launcher and stock sticky launcher. I've played Demoman for 90% of my TF2 time and I play offense and defense with him. The sword really doesn't change much for me because if I use it I don't use the shield because no good/useful Demoman would go without his Sticky Launcher.

Anyway the sword and shield somewhat fit the Demoman because they're based off of ancient (Well not Ancient but you get what I mean) Scottish weapons. The Demoman is Scottish so Scottish weapons fit with his heritage but I understand how you think they don't fit in with his personality.

[[JFG]Propaganda]

Then there's the fact that TF2 is the only multiplayer game that has ever - by design - made me laugh so I hard I was in tears. And they are still uppdating this game, two and one-half years after they were practically giving it away in a bundle cheaper than most single games.

+1 to that, it's really a bonus they update the game frequently. Not just bug fixes but actual content. As far as L4D and L4D2 they can keep it, never interested me much for some reason. Other than that i will say Valve is a great developer and a genius at business. Steam rhymes with $$$$$$$$.

[RefaelBA]

you didn't like Tf2 or portal either in the OB?
I still play tf2 daily

Yes, I did, but like I said I moved on from the OB. I don't want to play the same games for 3-4 years.

Portal.
Your turn...

So? When was portal released? Why can't anyone get what I'm trying to say here... Perhaps capitals will help the situation:
PORTAL WAS IN ORANGE BOX
ORANGE BOX WAS 2007
THAT WAS 3 YEARS AGO
I MOVED ON FROM ORANGE BOX

And I played some marvellous games since OB, while Valve dropped the ball with their out-of-the-blue l4d series and gave me nothing interesting to play. And don't lecture me about l4d please, I want single player campaigns, a real plot with intricate characters you can connect with (Ah... Dragon Age...) and NO L4D DOES NOT QUALIFY. If I wanted zombies I'd go fight for my life in Killing Floor instead of having a comic relief hitting zombies with guitars in L4D. Tfu
I loved TF2 but as I said, I like single-player experiences better, so I almost never play multiplayer games for more than a few weeks. Great single player games are coming out all the time and I rather play those than run around doing nonsense in multiplayer matches... Except for UT. That game will always have a special in my heart.

Valve is a great developer and a genius at business. Steam rhymes with $$$$$$$$.

No question about that. But since Valve took on publishing, I haven't seen them making any interesting games.

[source-maps]

And don't lecture me about l4d please, I want single player campaigns, a real plot with intricate characters you can connect with (Ah... Dragon Age...) and NO L4D DOES NOT QUALIFY.

l4d1/2 is like single player.. only your buddies come along for the ride

[pk_hunter]

Sounds to me like you need to experience playing with friends.

edit:
ninja'd. That wasn't aimed at source-maps

[RefaelBA]

And don't lecture me about l4d please, I want single player campaigns, a real plot with intricate characters you can connect with (Ah... Dragon Age...) and NO L4D DOES NOT QUALIFY.

l4d1/2 is like single player.. only your buddies come along for the ride

Oh yeah? What's the story in L4D?
And how many times can you play the same missions before you go crazy and break your keyboard?

Sounds to me like you need to experience playing with friends.

OR I can play another great Single Player game, and THEN go out with my friends to have a beer at the pub. Sounds like a plan...
The reason I don't like Multiplayer games is that most people don't get really into it and just fool around. I like RPG games and I guess I treat FPS the same way: trying to get the most immersive experience, and when a dude shows up with the name 'killah1337-=xxx=-' it kind of ruins the credibility of the scene. So sure, there are a few laughs to be had but eventually that's not why I'm there.
If I'm not at least a little inspired to write a book about the incredible plot I just went through, then that's not my type of game...

[Ennui]

Just because you don't play L4D or L4D2 doesn't mean you've moved on from Valve any more than not playing Ricochet, Day of Defeat or TFC back in the day when Valve bought them meant you had. As good as they are at addictive, well-rounded, well-designed and beautifully polished multiplayer games like L4D or TF2, their true strength is still in manufacturing immersive, atmospheric, and completely engrossing singleplayer experiences like Half-Life or Portal... so don't write them off until they give us the next chapter

Valve > Bioware regardless

[jgoodroad]

I would like to point out that Valve has secured their place for a long time, you know why?
THE SOURCE SDK! The gateway to expansive archive of user made maps and mods.

don't tell me you lose interest in the SDK...

[RefaelBA]

Just because you don't play L4D or L4D2 doesn't mean you've moved on from Valve any more than not playing Ricochet, Day of Defeat or TFC back in the day when Valve bought them meant you had. As good as they are at addictive, well-rounded, well-designed and beautifully polished multiplayer games like L4D or TF2, their true strength is still in manufacturing immersive, atmospheric, and completely engrossing singleplayer experiences like Half-Life or Portal... so don't write them off until they give us the next chapter

Valve > Bioware regardless

I haven't written them off, I just don't sit around waiting for Ep3. Whenever it comes, so be it, but we haven't heard a single clue since we played the OB some 3 years ago. So I'm not holding my breath... There are plenty of outstanding games out there I'm just not the massive Valve fan I used to be. Since playing Ep2, I played THREE amazing and absolutely groundbreaking BioWare games. THREE! Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, and Dragon Age. During that time I played 0 Valve games. So Valve > BioWare? Perhaps -Valve > -BioWare...

don't tell me you lose interest in the SDK...

I defected to UDK I'm afraid, though the Source SDK is still awesome. It's like the olympic torch of modding, But I won't fiddle with it again until the next major leap in Source tech. After working in UDK, I can say there's some serious work needed on the Source SDK environment to even the terms. I only wish I had time to actually work on modding and games. But SDK aside, we're talking about sheer games, and I'm afraid Valve is losing the round with 0 single player titles in the last three years.

[jgoodroad]

so let me get this strait your saying you like Bioware more because you have played their games more recently?
like if I said Zynga is better because I just got a Facebook account (thank god I don't)?