North Korea

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North Korea

Postby ziplock on Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:47 am

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Last edited by ziplock on Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: North Korea

Postby Plague on Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:55 am

Well the Shelling of the small island really started to make the public angry.

I personally think that it won't happen, even Kim cannot be too crazy.

During the Wiki-Leaks release they showed that some Chinese diplomats, unofficially, made comments about NK not quite being on their best side atm.



If it were to break out, I would think China would not bother.
China needs us and we need China, why bother defending NK when a unified Korea, even a democracy, would be potentially better and even profitable.


But maybe I'm being optimistic, but another Korean War seems a little off.
Maybe it ends up like Homefront though....
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Re: North Korea

Postby Juice on Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:09 am

I do not think it is financially interesting for the most western nations to go to war with the DPRK. Certainly not now with the poor economic health. I do believe however that the DPRK will continue to push the western nations and the ROK, provoking conflict. Forcing the western nations to take military actions, but I do not think the public of the western nations will support this war. Which leads to, what I believe is the true goal for the DPRK, political instability in the west.
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Re: North Korea

Postby Saxon on Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:42 am

Mercifully things seem to have quietened down since the South Korean ship was sunk, it seems pretty clear that NK are all by themselves and would have the world against them if they carried out a full scale war.

North Korea is in extremely bad shape: due to chronic food shortages many civilians and soldiers are running away to South Korea or into China. So I doubt there would be the willpower for their people to go through a war, all we see is the occasional trump card getting played from a very bad hand.
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Re: North Korea

Postby MayheM on Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:48 pm

Whatever happens, I just hope we stay out of it. The US needs to start letting people handle their own shit. We have tried to play world police and have gotten bashed for it. Other than that, we do not have the money to fight on another front.

The simple fact is China could destroy N Korea in a flash. N Korea gets everything from China. If the cut off food supplies they would have the people revolting and overthrowing the government in no time. Maybe they will get someone who actually wants to help it's people rather than I tyrant like...
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Re: North Korea

Postby Plague on Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:11 pm

Saxon wrote:Mercifully things seem to have quietened down since the South Korean ship was sunk,


I'm sure the civilians are not too happy at just sitting there, I feel bad for the people on the island who literally get artillery shells dropped on them.


I would imagine atm we cannot start a fight without provoking China, defense and attacking are two different things.

If NK attacks SK with full knowledgeable of the US sitting there with our Carriers, then China might let things role out and in the end might even cut off supplies.
Or the more peaceful alternative, as mentioned, would be if we could convince China to stop supporting NK and hopefully encourage rebellion.


But I guess we have to wait for his son to take over, we seem optimistic that we could get some talks in with them after that.



Talk about No Right Way Scenario, China won't just blow away an ally, US won't attack a Chinese ally, SK won't provoke a Chinese ally, NK probably won't do anything because of the US forces (unless he really thinks China will help them).

So we all just sit around waiting for an attack, meanwhile Kim sits around and has pissing matches with SK and the US...
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Re: North Korea

Postby MayheM on Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:23 pm

Actually the US is screwed in this. We are in such debt to the Chinese that we have no room to say a word. We can do little but ask nicely if China will do something because our government has sold us to China. What I am saying is China is not as much an ally to the US as it is the US is China's bitch... I pains me to say that... but it is sadly true. At least to some extent.
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Re: North Korea

Postby Plague on Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:34 pm

But China needs us as much as we need them.
Its more of a painful but required friendship, no matter how much we hate it.


But China would only be provoked if we attacked, if NK attacks its perfect opportunity to let them settle it out.
Of which Both the US and China know that the US forces would win, probably with a rebellion taking place before a true war can be fought.
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Re: North Korea

Postby Juice on Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:56 pm

Plague wrote:encourage rebellion.


Like the USA Government encouraged and supported a rebellion against the soviets in Afghanistan?

I believe that neither the USA nor the PRC should be involved in this conflict. The DPRK as well as the ROK should stop provoking each other. I believe that the ROK shelled albeit away from the DPRK shore. Which lead to the firing of 50 shells on Yeonpyeong by the DPRK. As a response the ROK fired 80 shells at the DPRK (according to the BCC and CNN)

Plague wrote:Or the more peaceful alternative, as mentioned, would be if we could convince China to stop supporting NK


I do believe that this will decrease casualties on the ROK and USA side. But think of the casualties that will fall on the DPRK side. I can imagine the current food shortage is causing casualties enough in the DPRK. Blocking Chinese food transports from entering the DPRK will cause even more deaths under civilians. When this happens the DPRK only have the play their cards right to blame the food shortage on the west. If the west want to resolve this conflict they need to, in my opinion, win the hearts of the civilians of the DPRK. I think that is impossible by denning them the little food the import from the PRC.
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Re: North Korea

Postby Plague on Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:17 pm

Well, less directly encourage rebellion.

with NK in its current condition I would not be surprised if a war would end short with a massive rebellion.
Unless Kim can really encourage his people enough they won't enjoy the idea of a war with the US of all people.

Honestly, I think its only the fact we're there that NK has not attacked even more directly.
If we were not there they could boast a war with SK as a unification of the Korea's, fanatics are the last thing you want to fight in a war.



If it were up to me, I would push China and give them incentives to go along with a unified Korean Democracy, then with their alright, insight rebellion with tactical strikes. hopefully minimize direct conflict to small areas
and if it was possible, try to bribe the current military with promised positions in the new country.

Low casualties and things would be over with.

But probably not happening.
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Re: North Korea

Postby Jangalomph on Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:02 pm

My short reply to this is, War is probably gonna be very imminent in the next few months, although you don't hear much about any uproar over there any more. ¬_¬
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Re: North Korea

Postby .treeturtle-- on Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:26 am

Plague wrote:Well, less directly encourage rebellion.

with NK in its current condition I would not be surprised if a war would end short with a massive rebellion.
Unless Kim can really encourage his people enough they won't enjoy the idea of a war with the US of all people.


You should watch some documentaries on North Korea. A rebellion by the North korean people will NEVER happen. The people all worship Kim, literally worship.
That is somewhat of a generalization, there are some, I am sure that don't, hence fleeing people.
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Re: North Korea

Postby Juice on Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:17 am

Plague wrote:If it were up to me, I would push China and give them incentives to go along with a unified Korean Democracy, then with their alright, insight rebellion with tactical strikes.


I do not agree with you. I think that if the west had incentives that would help them achieve relative calm and order from their point of view. Why didn't they play those cards before? Same goes for the point of view from DPRK(Democratic People's Republic of Korea)/PRC(People's Republic of China) sides


Plague wrote:and if it was possible, try to bribe the current military with promised positions in the new country.


Kim Jong-il is not only the leader of the DPRK but also the supreme commander of the KPA (Korean People's Army). And what positions in your opinion are you going to promise then? Political? Military? Is it true that the main objective for the west is to make the current DPRK more democratic?
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Re: North Korea

Postby Plague on Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:59 pm

Juice wrote:I do not agree with you. I think that if the west had incentives that would help them achieve relative calm and order from their point of view. Why didn't they play those cards before? Same goes for the point of view from DPRK(Democratic People's Republic of Korea)/PRC(People's Republic of China) sides


My thinking would be that we either don't think we can or don't want to try asking China for that permission.

International relationships are confusing things, I'm sure it would take something rather impressive for China to go back on an ally of theirs.

My current initial thought is that there is probably some trade laws that could be changed/removed that China would like.
I'd have to go look at how it is in SK atm.

But yea, I'm sure we have tried but I would still be pushing them. (assuming we're not, I'm sure we still kinda do)

Juice wrote:Kim Jong-il is not only the leader of the DPRK but also the supreme commander of the KPA (Korean People's Army). And what positions in your opinion are you going to promise then? Political? Military? Is it true that the main objective for the west is to make the current DPRK more democratic?


In that particular comment I would probably have gone to high ranking officials.
A promise in either a political position or a military position would be given.

But its questionable how high up the ranks you could catch someone willing to accept and even at that if their willing to risk it all for a new position in the new government.


To the last comment,
If NK were to be overthrown, by US/SK, Yes it would be absorbed into SK. We would probably be sitting in NK's previous area for another year or two after whatever caused its downfall to help in rebuilding.

The new government would most likely be temporarily exactly the same as SK currently, but we would probably either encourage them to hire a new leader or let them do as they wish.

After that we would probably still station troops in bases in assurance for protection from China, not necessarily needed, but better to be safe.



But this is all me just doing passive thinking on the subject.
If I was in the position I would do a ton more research and have more to throw out.
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Re: North Korea

Postby kkirspel on Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:04 pm

.treeturtle-- wrote:You should watch some documentaries on North Korea. A rebellion by the North korean people will NEVER happen. The people all worship Kim, literally worship.
That is somewhat of a generalization, there are some, I am sure that don't, hence fleeing people.

Man, this. Again its generalization but the civilians are cut off from the world. They don't have internet, tv, radio, whatever. All they hear is the propanga their government feeds them; "the west is evil", ect, ect.

I've seen a few North Korea documentaries over the last few years. One was of a doctor going into North Korea to cure a particular blindness by removing cataracts that had grown in ppl's eyes. After the surgery/recovery was all said and done, the patients would get up after the doctor checked them, walk past the doctor that cured them from the blindness they'd for years, and thanked/prayed to the picture of their "Leader" for curing them. A Leader who in fact denies the population the needed medical care in the first place.

They think they have it well off and are grateful of their Leader when they're starving and living multiple families to a home the size of a small apartment with no water and no electricity.

Mother's often teach their children little song/lullabies about (North) America dying.

You can maybe say they put on this 'show' in fear of being punished and thats probably how it started, but over the generations it's went from informed people pretending to love their leader so as they do not 'dissappear', to where they're decendants are actually thinking its true, b/c thats all they've ever heard their entire lives and have nothing to compare to their standard of living.
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