Breaking The Taboo: Ending the war on drugs

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Do you agree with the decriminalization of most if not all drugs?

Yes
10
59%
No
5
29%
Maybe
2
12%
 
Total votes : 17

Re: Breaking The Taboo: Ending the war on drugs

Postby Armageddon on Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:01 pm

I didn't even read all this, but I watched just for Morgan Freeman's voice.
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Re: Breaking The Taboo: Ending the war on drugs

Postby Epifire on Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:15 pm

source-maps wrote:-Will it do more harm then good across the board to the public?
-Will it improve or worsen the condition of society by legalizing it?

well.. more people in jail that would other wise go to school and get a career.. now turned into criminals.. is that really what you want

honestly.. I enjoy drinking a glass of Whiskey with my dad or having a beer with my buddies
and from time to time I enjoy smoking some hash, that nice vanilla-ish flavor combined with a relaxed high

I take me school seriously, worked since I was 13, never got into trouble with the police nor with other people on the street.. yeah trow me in jail and make me a criminal because I have some fun with substances you don't agree with


People would learn very quickly what not to do were there such high penalties that were imposed as such. People don't require illegal drugs, there is no benefit that is a must to their physical health, nothing that couldn't be prescription over the counter stuff anyway. <<this being the correct moderation

As I said I have no illusion to feel bad for people put in prison for their own stupidity. It is like saying we should remove traffic laws because idiots are getting put it jail for disobeying them. Laws are the governments way of protecting people from others or themselves. If they are so irresponsible with how they live their lives and have no ability to abide by the law I got two things to say to them... go to prison or go live in some other third world country that doesn't care. As simple as that.
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Re: Breaking The Taboo: Ending the war on drugs

Postby source-maps on Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:28 pm

the point is that it's beneficial for society to at least decriminalize drugs, that's simply a fact.. so why not do the thing with the best outcome instead of doing the thing that forces your set of beliefs and will cause a worse out come for society.. I mean isn't what's best for society what you believed?

people don't require lots of stuff, but being a tolerant society is about being able to not approve of things, but let people live their life's as long as it doesn't harm others

edit:

I like to end this discussion with this clip of southpark, considering epifires ideology is set in small town Americas stone.

http://youtu.be/gUEjnoWpdao
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Re: Breaking The Taboo: Ending the war on drugs

Postby Epifire on Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:40 pm

Screw South Park, I thought I may have actually had the chance to hear a valid sensible view out of all this. Since you fail to see my point nor to take this seriously I'm done. In excerpt to a wise saying, "don't throw your pearls to swine"

So that being said I conclude my discussing this any further.
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Re: Breaking The Taboo: Ending the war on drugs

Postby source-maps on Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:45 pm

valid points where all over the place, at least from my side
let me recap

-you wanted what's best for society, trowing people in jail for harmless things = not best
-being tolerant is about being able to let people do what they want to do as long as it doesn't hurt others
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Re: Breaking The Taboo: Ending the war on drugs

Postby Jangalomph on Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:07 am

Did you watch the entire video epifire?
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Re: Breaking The Taboo: Ending the war on drugs

Postby joe_rogers_11155 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:50 pm

Jesus fucking Christ......this is an enormous, multi-layered topic.

I have not watched the video yet, but my initial opinion of the decriminalization of drugs (at least from the standpoint of a US discussion) is that is would be a good idea for the federal government to decriminalize most drugs and then defer drug regulation to the states. Like most other government-run projects, the War on Drugs has outlived its usefulness, and has not only been a failure, but has become corrupted by big government and corporation meddling. I don't think the states would not be much better at dealing with the regulation of drugs, but I think that over time, the states would be able to come up with solutions that are tailor-made for that particular state. It would certainly free up some tens of millions of federal dollars to defer to the states.

With all that said, we have to think about how and why the US War on Drugs began, and then analyze how it changed to become corrupt. Before Richard Nixon ever had anything to say about it, the regulation of narcotics really began in the 1800's, when opium addiction was making its way through the global population. As it entered the US (mainly the west coast, through Chinese immigrants) it caused a societal crisis because people literally stopped going to work or caring for themselves. Back then there was no regulation at all (you could literally buy cocaine and a syringe from the shopping catalogs for $1.50 (thanks Wikipedia!!)). People were getting doped up to the N'th degree. Something had to be done to keep the local economies alive. An act was produced that would tax anything opium-related, thus making it much more expensive to deal in opium. At the same time, it was determined that in order to head off any future drug-related problems, all narcotics should be internatinoally regulated. They were genuinely trying to protect the people and the economy from the dangers of addiction and lethargy.

Without going into great detail here (which would take forever), suffice it to say that...over the course of many years and into the present era, further regulation has stacked up on top of existing regulation to overcriminalize the shit out of most drugs. In addition, businesses got into the mix to develop "legal" drugs that could infiltrate safer realms of medical care and treatment, and basically turned people into doped up, bleating sheep with fat wallets for the shearing. I also think of the compulsion to fill prison space, which allows governments a rationale to raise taxes in support of building more prisons...tricking and scaring the public into thinking that they are paying the government for a "safer community".

To shift gears, I want to stress that I think addiction is one of the worst things that can happen to a person. Addiction destroys not only the person suffering from it, but also the family and friends. It can literally turn brother against brother. The addicted will eventually sacrifice their humanity and their moral code by wildly debasing themselves to get "one more fix". Certain drugs (heroin, cocaine, barbituates) are so chemically addictive (or deadly in overdose) that not regulating their consumption would be very irresponsible from a societal standpoint (in that sense, one might compare the criminalization of certain drugs to the criminalization of suicide), which is exactly the mindset that started the regulation of certain narcotics in the 1800's.

There are also plenty of drugs that, while they are not so addicting, they are still very dangerous to the user and to the people around them. I am speaking more toward drugs like LSD, ecstasy, and amphetamines. These drugs can cause people's emotions to explode, or cause life-threatening physiological problems like dehydration, loss of mental facilities, etc etc etc that can endanger everybody (Don't forget about the "bath salt zombie" incidents.). Those kinds of drugs must also be regulated to some degree, out of similar interest to societal safety.

(I wish I had more time but I feel like all of this typing will amount to naught anyways so I'll just wrap it up.) There is a deep dark side to drug abuse, but not to simply drug use. Experimentation is fine, and is the human way...but addiction is extremely serious, and can sneak up on you. For that reason, most drugs deserve some kind of regulation.

One more thing I want to say...fuck anybody who thinks cannibis should be illegal. Cigarettes and alcohol kill several orders of magnitude MORE than cannibis use. I'm extremely happy to see the states fighting the good fight and getting cannibis legalized.
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Re: Breaking The Taboo: Ending the war on drugs

Postby source-maps on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:03 pm

tjees man wall of text, I do agree with all of your points.

like some guy said in the video, it's better to be open about the more dangerous drugs and have a discussion about it, and to help those who abuse the drugs instead of punishing people who use it and put the topic away in a dark corner
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Re: Breaking The Taboo: Ending the war on drugs

Postby joe_rogers_11155 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:19 pm

That's a pretty good way of putting it. When I get home I will watch the video and come back. I will also be responding to the discussion between yourself and epifire.

In short, putting lots of people in prison for drug abuse does not stop others from abusing drugs. Therefore, you are mis-managing your resources and incorrectly fighting the "war". I would go so far as to say that the term "war on drugs" be dissolved, because certain groups like the drug cartels are taking it more literally with every fighting season. I feel really fucking bad for the cops in Mexico and the US border patrol.

On a slightly different note, what do you guys think of the Fast and Furious program? That's another fine example of government-run programs becoming hideously corrupted. A state (such as Texas or New Mexico) probably would NOT have done that, because the cartel violence is hitting much closer to home. The people in Washington live in a bubble, which can easily insulate them from the problems gripping the nation. They thus will frequently mis-diagnose the problem.
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Re: Breaking The Taboo: Ending the war on drugs

Postby BEAN on Sat May 03, 2014 8:47 pm

The reason the US has the homicide rate it does is thanks to the gang violence in our inner cities that is based on the drug war. The same thing happened with prohibition and the mobs were running alcohol. You had violent crime, murder and corruption that infiltrated the local and state agencies. Once alcohol was legalized all the crime and violence went away so the government moved on to drugs. Drugs were not a social issue prior to the government making them illegal because most people did not use them. If you want a great documentary on the topic try watching the Drug War and the Drug War 2. The second film goes over how the government keeps marijuana and other holistic healing remedies from helping people as a alternative to the poison based medicines that attack the human body. The movie is truly eye opening, especially the scene with the parents who heal their son from a golf ball sized tumor with marijuana oil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRGix9Xw270

Governmental agencies, such as the CIA, are responsible for bringing most of the drugs into the US so, I highly doubt that you will see an end to it. The taliban had shut down opium production in Afghanistan and now our troops are protecting the poppy producers. Where does most of the heroine produced in the world come to? The US. The US government isn't concerned with ending the drug war, they are interested in making money off the the drugs by limiting competition of the product. It is rather disgusting really. Take a look at Fast and Furious and the Mexican drug cartels that the US government was protecting.
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Re: Breaking The Taboo: Ending the war on drugs

Postby Major Banter on Sat May 03, 2014 10:41 pm

A one and a half year necrobump. Impressive.
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Re: Breaking The Taboo: Ending the war on drugs

Postby Hollow on Sat May 03, 2014 10:56 pm

drugdrugdrugdrugssss
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Re: Breaking The Taboo: Ending the war on drugs

Postby Gambini on Sun May 04, 2014 12:02 am

I hope you don´t mind me not having read the whole thread before posting. But i found notorius this excerpt:

I want to stress that I think addiction is one of the worst things that can happen to a person. Addiction destroys not only the person suffering from it, but also the family and friends. It can literally turn brother against brother. The addicted will eventually sacrifice their humanity and their moral code by wildly debasing themselves to get "one more fix". Certain drugs (heroin, cocaine, barbituates) are so chemically addictive (or deadly in overdose) that not regulating their consumption would be very irresponsible from a societal standpoint (in that sense, one might compare the criminalization of certain drugs to the criminalization of suicide), which is exactly the mindset that started the regulation of certain narcotics in the 1800's.


So yeah. Just give a read to first hand experiences of people trying to get out of drugs: http://www.drugs-forum.com/
Chemically addictive drugs are a big deal. They can consume a person completely, and get them begging on their knees. I consider cannabis a different subject though. Maybe it´s because a friend of a friend does smoke it on a regular basis and he finds it quite good actually. Decriminalizating marijuana would:

1- Detach it from the illegal market, which would reduce the odds of consumers switching to hard drugs by inertia.
2- It would also save a lot of money and effort which is now wasted on pursuing cannabis dealers and prosecute consumers.
3- It would ensure a certain level of quality since procedence could be tracked controlled and maybe legally commercialized.

But at the same time It´d promote its consumption (just Imagine if tobaco corporations would start to sell cannabis, and government putting taxes and more taxes to it). Personally i consider this a bad idea. This friend of a friend of mine would for sure smoke quite a bit more if he didn´t have to hide it from people of his outer circle. It´d become at some point morally accepted by the majority, which would increase consumtion. While it is not terrible, it´s not either a good idea at all. Just think of that The Simpsons chapter named Bart´s Inner Child, in which everybody in the town begins to live by Bart´s principles and therefore give a fuck about everything :D
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