I-Doser

[coder0xff]

Here's a FREE opensource one: http://gnaural.sourceforge.net/
EDIT: AH EVEN BETTER: http://pantheon.yale.edu/~bbl2/GnauralJ ... igned.html

WOOOOWWWW. I can't believe that commercialization shit. I tried a program similar to this years ago. It used binaural beat frequencies to do the same thing. Funny that when I went to the site it said "binaural blady blah" just like I had remembered from my child hood. Difference was that one generated the audio on the fly from numeric inputs for frequencies and such. Pretty much just a synthesizer I guess.

So can I sue them if it doesn't work as advertised? I'm sure they got a disclaimer about "for entertainment purposes only" somewhere around there?

Edit: If you wanna know if it's placebo effect - have someone else choose a pattern for you, and write down your experienced effects when complete. See how they stack up against what the description says. In fact you could try several of them, and do half of them blind and half not, and see how much you really suck.

[Mr. Happy]

Does it matter if it's placebo if it works?

[coder0xff]

Does it matter if it's placebo if it works?

Yes. If it gives you a worse headache, but for some reason you believe it's better, is that OK? Can I make you suffer as long as you don't know it?

[vcool]

Well if I don't know I am suffering, and provided this unnoticed suffering does not have any short/long- term consequences on me, I don't see a reason why you should stop?

On the other hand, if everything's normal and I don't experience consequences, am I really suffering? Wouldn't that be a state of normal being?

If it does have consequences such as death of worsening of state, then yes, you shouldn't be making me suffer, even though I don't feel like suffering. But that's what life is. You live on feeling fine for most of the time (although that is far from being true for most people) and in the end you die. Wouldn't that be also unnoticed suffering?

Life is pain.

[RefaelBA]

Well I wouldn't say it's placebo at all. Not for me at least.
I already got to check a lot of doses, some are were really cool and worked pretty well. I think I need to improve my concentration for more complex stuff to work on me.
Anyway, I think it isn't placebo since the times it DID work made me feel some pretty amazing things, which were really far off from anything I know. I mean, it wasn't like having a feeling that I already knew, but more like having a brand new feeling that I never encountered before. And I could also tell somehow that I wasn't in control of that feeling really. Plus I don't see how the placebo effect can make you feel like you're moving underwater. Crazy stuff...

[no00dylan]

A professor in one of my classes once told me about a man who had 57 personalities. One of which was allergic to peanuts, the rest were not. He didn't just think this, it was real. This one specific personality was physically allergic to peanuts when the rest didn't react to them at all. It really shows the power of the brain, just to add on to Mr.Happy's post. If it's a placebo... does it matter?

Also: You can't make one suffer without them knowing, because a part of suffering is being aware.

[firedfns13]

My friend told me about it so i looked into it and it did not work on me at all...

[RefaelBA]

It takes practice, you need to concentrate. Attempt going to sleep while listening or maybe practice some yoga...

[coder0xff]

You can't make one suffer without them knowing, because a part of suffering is being aware.

Does that mean an animal that isn't self aware can't suffer? ( just for the sake of argument )

[no00dylan]

If you don't know that you are suffering, then how are you suffering?

[coder0xff]

answer the question. ;-p

Ignorance may be bliss, but not knowing that things can be better doesn't make how they are better.

[vcool]

answer the question. ;-p

Ignorance may be bliss, but not knowing that things can be better doesn't make how they are better.

Well if I don't know I am suffering, and provided this unnoticed suffering does not have any short/long- term consequences on me, I don't see a reason why you should stop?

On the other hand, if everything's normal and I don't experience consequences, am I really suffering? Wouldn't that be a state of normal being?

If it does have consequences such as death of worsening of state, then yes, you shouldn't be making me suffer, even though I don't feel like suffering. But that's what life is. You live on feeling fine for most of the time (although that is far from being true for most people) and in the end you die. Wouldn't that be also unnoticed suffering?

Life is pain.

[coder0xff]

I guess cigarettes are good for you too.

[vcool]

But cigarettes have consequences, thus by my classification they do cause suffering even though you don't notice it.

And no, cigarettes are bad.

[klyemar]

You can't make one suffer without them knowing, because a part of suffering is being aware.

Does that mean an animal that isn't self aware can't suffer? ( just for the sake of argument )

That's a good question. In my opinion I don't think an animal that isn't sufficiently aware can suffer, at least in terms of emotional stress. I remember watching a video a couple years ago where researchers were trying to figure out if animals experienced stress like humans did. They were checking blood cortisol levels in different animals to see if they remained stressed after a bad experience, like a lion attack. Humans can have heightened levels of the hormone even hours after a stressing event since we're capable of rehashing it again and again in our minds. Deer that had been chased by a lion had an extremely high level immediately after they ran away, but it would be down to normal after a few minutes, like they had forgotten that had even happened (munch, munch, munch, oh shit run!, munch, munch, munch). Apes on the other hand, would have very high levels of the stress hormone hours after something as small as a social altercation with the alpha male, over some females. Since they're cognitive animals, they were actually experiencing what could be social stress and anxiety, unlike the deer that were fine just minutes after having their lives threatened.