Valve got hacked... Again?

[Jangalomph]

very interesting effect.

[Epifire]

Is it just me, or is this sort of like karma coming to bite Valve right in the ass? They neglected the modding community for a while, and then all of the sudden (what appears to be) the 2007 source code gets leaked to the internet.

I really can't quite see that being that they have been so busy building up the new features in steam among who knows what else. By now I am certain they see our condition but if they are working hard towards the next big release. So why would they be updating old code to us when they could just work harder at getting a new and more better code out to us?

I see these kinds of leaks as points that slow the development down and end up exposing things that we would have had in the initial release they intended. People think to much that we some how own the right to push Valve around like we own the code or something (not saying you Nub but just the community in general). We have had a lot of exceptions and Valve has given us a lot of freedom in the passed, so I think it is ridiculous to think we deserve much else when they have already given so much. I am just waiting for HL 3, and when it comes I think it is safe to start evaluating what we are allowed to have in the line of modding.

[nub]

You do know Valve has multiple teams that each work on different projects, right? For all we know, they could be working on an entirely new IP alongside Episode 3.

They wouldn't need a big team at all to at least fix up the SDK so it's more stable.

[ScarT]

Tony Sergi fixed all the known bugs in the SDK, but the update was never released. He stopped contracting for Valve. He was later told he wasn't legally able to release his port of the SDK template to ASW. That's Valve for you.

[Gary]

Tony Sergi fixed all the known bugs in the SDK, but the update was never released. He stopped contracting for Valve. He was later told he wasn't legally able to release his port of the SDK template to ASW. That's Valve for you.

I still can't believe they wouldn't let him do that... it's like they are trying to kill the modding community.

[ScarT]

I've had that feeling for a long time. Mike Durand is managing engine licenses now, and has doing that for a lot of years.

[Epifire]

You do know Valve has multiple teams that each work on different projects, right? For all we know, they could be working on an entirely new IP alongside Episode 3.

They wouldn't need a big team at all to at least fix up the SDK so it's more stable.

Well I know they got multiple teams for things. Call it neglect or what you will but I think they have just shifted their efforts honestly. Makes the most sense to me.

[Jangalomph]

Toni sergi, I've talked to him in emails before. He's a rather nice guy. Not sure why he's no longer at valve though.

[ScarT]

He never worked at Valve. He contracted for Valve. He stopped due to lack of time, and he's working with Minh Lee on Tactical Intervention.

[SM Sith Lord]

Skipping straight to us modders using the leaked Source code in our mods...

My gut instinct is that Valve would absolutely black bar your mod as much as they could if it was learned that it uses the leaked code.

However, sometimes their actions confuse the shit out of me. For example, they state very clearly that you must have the right to sell your game to post it on Greenlight, but now they have allowed and approved Source mods into Greenlight. Which is confusing because I don't think it is legal to sell your Source mods.

So... my guess is Valve will tell us not to use the leaked source code, but then when it stars appearing in released mods, they'll be fine with it. Does that sound about right?

[ScarT]

They won't be fine with it, but they can't prove anything and they aren't going to start accusing modders of stealing code (unless its blatantly obvious).

[Jangalomph]

Mods like the one i work on No more room in hell got on greenlight because we are not selling it.

[SM Sith Lord]

Mods like the one i work on No more room in hell got on greenlight because we are not selling it.

That's my point Jangalomph. One of the very few requirements to post your game on Greenlight was that you possess the right to sell your game, which no Source mod has the right to if I'm not mistaken.

Obviously Valve didn't mean this, but it is what they said on their submission requirements.

[Dman757]

That's my point Jangalomph. One of the very few requirements to post your game on Greenlight was that you possess the right to sell your game, which no Source mod has the right to if I'm not mistaken.

Obviously Valve didn't mean this, but it is what they said on their submission requirements.

Thought I might interject since I had this very question about Greenlight since it was announced. I had to do a bit of leg work to find out if putting No More Room in Hell on greenlight would be something valve would allow. I've been in the process of writing a article on our "journey" to greenlight here's a segment from it which I hope answers your question:

We had already planned since the very second Greenlight was announced that we would try Greenlight if it was open to sourcemods. The thing was we didn't know if sourcemods would be allowed on the platform. So while at QuakeCon 2012 this year I knew a few names from Valve were attending and I wanted to know more about Greenlight. I took my opportunity at a panel (see My question at: 44:18) although it didn't end there as I ended up talking to Chet Faliszek after the panel in more detail. We exchanged emails and this was the response I got back:

"After talking with our team here, you guys are a great candidate for the Steam Greenlight. We will be opening that up shortly and you would be available to be use that as an entry point onto steam – there would be one issue. If approved/voted up – you would need to come back and discuss licensing terms with us for engine use etc.

But the first step would be getting green lit.

So to that end, good luck! With your strong community it should work for you."

Greenlight was more of a back up plan since I had already been talking with someone from Valve. More of a "they can't ignore us now" sort of thing. We had our foot in the door, they had our programmer sign an NDA then no responses to my emails for months. Then greenlight was announced and well you just read that story above...

[SM Sith Lord]

We had already planned since the very second Greenlight was announced that we would try Greenlight if it was open to sourcemods. The thing was we didn't know if sourcemods would be allowed on the platform. So while at QuakeCon 2012 this year I knew a few names from Valve were attending and I wanted to know more about Greenlight. I took my opportunity at a panel (see My question at: 44:18) although it didn't end there as I ended up talking to Chet Faliszek after the panel in more detail. We exchanged emails and this was the response I got back:

"After talking with our team here, you guys are a great candidate for the Steam Greenlight. We will be opening that up shortly and you would be available to be use that as an entry point onto steam – there would be one issue. If approved/voted up – you would need to come back and discuss licensing terms with us for engine use etc.

But the first step would be getting green lit.

So to that end, good luck! With your strong community it should work for you."

Thanks for all the info. That's kind of a perfect example of Valve saying 1 thing in their terms, but wanting you to do something different.

However, it seems like you guys are intending to make NMRIH a standalone game when it comes to Steam? Is this correct? Because if it were standalone, you would (most likely) have the right to sell it and therefor it would fit with Valve's printed Greenlight requirements. It's just confusing that they say not to submit games that you don't have a right to sell in their terms, but tell you differently in person.

Doesn't matter too much though. My Source mod is complete crap according to anybody who's never used it (which is most people). I just felt like a dummy for not submitting it to Greenlight back when it was free to do so, all because of the misleading Greenlight requirements. I may not have had a chance of getting Greenlight'ed, but at least I would have gotten the word out about my mod to some new people who might be interested in using it.

... or maybe it would have gone viral and we'd all be chatting inside SMArcade right now... WHO KNOWS?!


Back on topic though, I hope Valve comes out and tells us its okay to use this Source 2007 code for non-retail games upfront. If they wait until people start releasing mods with it before they say its okay, then they are sort of rewarding the wrong kinds of people IMO.

And btw, isn't it possible to tell if your mod uses the stolen code by monitoring memory and other hax0r crap? If one were so inclined, I mean. Like, if a call goes into a portion of code that is supposed to be protected, but then produces an output that isn't expected? I don't know, just seems like people who know what to look for would be able to tell.